Gibraltar 2

Old Nov 18th 2023, 9:50 am
  #2101  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Of course Fred has done some highly selective editing on the original article because he likes to play the victim, if you read the unabridged version it says exactly why there are problems for blue card holders - the UK stopped recognising DNIs for Spanish citizens in October 2021 and required them to carry passports so Spain reciprocated did the same at the Spain-Gibraltar border.

Also as it's a Schengen border they get a passport stamp and can be asked questions about funds, reason for visit, accommodation, and return travel and may not be allowed entry if the answers aren't good enough.

Note that red card holders (mainly Gibraltarians) are still allowed through without a passport stamp, this is something which affects mainly British citizens.

Since then the Gibraltan government keeps saying they're raising the issue with Spain but really it's down to a decision taken in Westminister. If the UK were to recognise ID cards again then Spain would again reciprocate.

Last edited by DLC; Nov 18th 2023 at 10:01 am.
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Old Nov 18th 2023, 11:41 am
  #2102  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2


My information is comming from some of the people who were affected not just media information.

Anyone should be able to cross this frontier by presenting a passport. Forget ID cards or tgere colour.
Earlier this year I did just that and had my passport stamped.

I mentioned Princess Anne earlier.
Her flight was diverted to Malaga 🤣
That's hilarious, did she get a taxi from Malaga airport to Gib? I hope Spanish border force made her queue up with everyone else.

Unless and until Gibraltar joins Schengen, you and all UK nationals are at the mercy of Spanish border force. That is the harsh reality of being a third country national, you have lost the protection you had and there are no guarantees you will be granted entry at any EU border.
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Old Nov 18th 2023, 1:09 pm
  #2103  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Conditions for entry into Spain

Presumably all those denied entry were actually given a reason.

I'm highly sceptical of the notion that thousands of other people crossed the border that day and a handful were randomly selected to be turned back for no reason other than the pleasure of one border officer.

Last edited by Red Eric; Nov 18th 2023 at 1:12 pm.
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Old Nov 19th 2023, 2:18 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Red Eric
Conditions for entry into Spain

Presumably all those denied entry were actually given a reason
No.

There are non so blind as those that will not see.
But then again if it salves their conscience
Keep living in your dream world.
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Old Nov 19th 2023, 11:21 am
  #2105  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
I suppose this is painful to those who have migrated to Spain
Why would it be? Those who have migrated are in possession of Spanish residency cards and are greeted with a smile at passport control. Quick and easy.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by astera
Why would it be? Those who have migrated are in possession of Spanish residency cards and are greeted with a smile at passport control. Quick and easy.
So you are content that the authorities of your country of residence treats it's neighbours and tourists in the way described above?
A country that anually makes hundreds of of illegal incussions into Gibraltar's territorial waters.
A country that is a gateway for drugs into Europe.
Keep living in your dream world.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 10:46 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Earlier today I met an old employee who on saturday wanted to go to Spain to visit a house he owns there.
He was stopped at the frontier and made to produce his Escritura before being allowed across.
So it would appear that if you have a house , a plane ticket from Malaga or a hotel booking you are allowed across.
However if all you whish to do is spend money, then forget it.👎
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 3:01 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
No.

There are non so blind as those that will not see.
But then again if it salves their conscience
Keep living in your dream world.
You missed half of the quote. Eric wrote:
I'm highly sceptical of the notion that thousands of other people crossed the border that day and a handful were randomly selected to be turned back for no reason other than the pleasure of one border officer.

I'm also sceptical. There absolutely must have been other reasons for the refusals and those reasons must have been given. If not, there would be a huge diplomatic row over this instead of a few misquoted lines from a few news outlets.

My suspicion is that these people were refused because they insisted on not having their passports stamped whilst not in possession of the correct additional documentation. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people loudly asking for their passports not to be stamped as they are homeowners (not residents) and then holding the rest of the queue whilst they rummage for their non-existent documentation.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Carry on being sceptical and burying your head in the sand.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 9:24 pm
  #2110  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Earlier today I met an old employee who on saturday wanted to go to Spain to visit a house he owns there.
He was stopped at the frontier and made to produce his Escritura before being allowed across.
So it would appear that if you have a house , a plane ticket from Malaga or a hotel booking you are allowed across.
However if all you whish to do is spend money, then forget it.👎
You've all but recognised it's due to being outside of Schengen and nationalities from non-EU/EEA countries don't have an automatic right to entry inside Schengen.

That said, Gibraltan and British nationals were treated by Spain as if they had that right until October 2021. After that date only Gibraltan nationals were treated as if they have that right due to a decision made by the UK.

Now all you need to do is hope that Gibraltar and Spain get an agreement.
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Old Nov 21st 2023, 7:02 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by DLC
You've all but recognised it's due to being outside of Schengen and nationalities from non-EU/EEA countries don't have an automatic right to entry inside Schengen.

That said, Gibraltan and British nationals were treated by Spain as if they had that right until October 2021. After that date only Gibraltan nationals were treated as if they have that right due to a decision made by the UK.

Now all you need to do is hope that Gibraltar and Spain get an agreement.
Yes Gibraltar is outside Schengen so is the UK.
Are other non Schengen citizens having similar problems at other entry points into Spain?
Are second home owners being asked for their Ecrituras.?
Can Uk citizens tour Spain with no prebooked accommodation or is this only being policed at the Gibraltar frontier.
Earlier it was mentioned that Gibraltar should embrace Spain. Maybe if Spain embraced Gibraltar instead of forever putting it down, treated Gibraltarians with friendship then in a few generations the Gibraltarians may embrace Spain. Spain has had 300+ years to change it's tactics.

Gibraltar provides finance through employment to 15,000+ spanish residents and thereby feeds many families in the Campo de Gibraltar.
These are the 1000's who daily cross this frontier unchalanged.
It's time Spain woke up and showed friendship instead of agression, this also aplies to some posters on this forum.
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Old Nov 21st 2023, 9:28 am
  #2112  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Assisting Gibraltar in addressing chronic labour shortages and helping the territory retain tourist revenues sound like acts of charity, rather than aggression, to me.
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Old Nov 21st 2023, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Red Eric
Assisting Gibraltar in addressing chronic labour shortages and helping the territory retain tourist revenues sound like acts of charity, rather than aggression, to me.
There are plenty of Portuguese construction workers employed in Gibraltar too. They work in Gibraltar, stay in La Linea during the week and go home at the weekend.

With all this talk about Gibraltar I feel a trip coming on. So we are going to visit next week but will drive in this time. That said, I'm fascinated by all this border stuff so if we've got time, I think we will park outside (the car will be full of shopping) and walk back into Gib a couple of times just to see what it's like. I've got my Irish passport card which is like a an ID card and my British partner will have their EU residency card and UK passport which works very well at borders. Hopefully we will be able to gauge the mood and see what's going on first hand.

To be honest, we have never witnessed any hostility from either Spanish border force or the Guardia Civil at customs. Occasionally they can seem a bit sour but most seem to be reasonable and even helpful when my partner had the paper form of residency.

Fred, am I right in thinking Gibraltarians just wave their ID cards?


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Old Nov 21st 2023, 12:54 pm
  #2114  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Earlier it was mentioned that Gibraltar should embrace Spain. Maybe if Spain embraced Gibraltar instead of forever putting it down, treated Gibraltarians with friendship then in a few generations the Gibraltarians may embrace Spain. Spain has had 300+ years to change it's tactics.
If the proposed Schengen agreement isn't an example of that, I don't know what is. Also there were agreements struck on social security, the environment, and police cooperation in the past few years.

The British government chose the kind of Brexit to carry out and came up with something that screwed Gibraltar. Spain could have done nothing but it came up with the interim border agreement hopefully leading on to the definitive agreement soon.

Last edited by DLC; Nov 21st 2023 at 12:58 pm.
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Old Nov 22nd 2023, 5:36 am
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by Red Eric
Assisting Gibraltar in addressing chronic labour shortages and helping the territory retain tourist revenues sound like acts of charity, rather than aggression, to me.
We managed very well when Spain closed the frontier.
Morocco stepped in and supplied far better workers better skills and work habits, many of them are still here.
Unfortunately they suffered from high property prices and the inability to easily commute.
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