Gibraltar 2

Old Oct 28th 2022, 9:08 am
  #1921  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

The Spanish border authorities appear to have leaked to the media there that the UK diplomatic bags which had been detained have finally been allowed to cross into Gibraltar.
The items were destined for The Convent.
It has taken 16 days for the saga to come to a conclusion, despite the fact that diplomatic goods cannot be detained, scanned, opened or otherwise interfered with under international law. The Spanish media are making much of the point that the weight of the items was some 150 kilos.
Diplomatic bags finally released | Gibraltar Panorama

26th October 2022
British diplomatic bags that had been held up by Spain at the border for over a fortnight were released this week and delivered to the Office of the Governor.
The bags contained official correspondence between London and the Office of the Governor and had been sent overland “in error” as opposed to by air.
The bags appear to have been stopped because Spain does not recognise the Office of the Governor as a diplomatic mission, meaning the shipment was not afforded standard diplomatic protections.
According to the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations, packages carrying official documents and other material deemed necessary for use by a diplomatic mission - provided that they are clearly marked as such - cannot be opened or detained.
https://www.chronicle.gi/spain-relea...order-hold-up/
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Old Oct 28th 2022, 9:12 am
  #1922  
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The European Commission has opened an infringement procedure against Spain for its failure to protect the environment in Gibraltar waters.
This action, which will be seen as politically loaded, is believed to have happened some years ago, but it was set out earlier this week in answer to a question in the European Parliament about the OS35 incident.
OVERLAPPING
The root of the issue was the designation by the United Kingdom and Spain of overlapping Sites of Community Importance (SCI) which incorporated parts or all of British Gibraltar Territorial Waters. This, under EU law, meant that the Member State in question was charged with certain environmental responsibilities in that marine area.
Gibraltar waters issue raised in European Parliament | Gibraltar Panorama
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Old Oct 28th 2022, 10:48 am
  #1923  
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Originally Posted by Fredbargate
26th October 2022
British diplomatic bags that had been held up by Spain at the border for over a fortnight were released this week and delivered to the Office of the Governor.
The bags contained official correspondence between London and the Office of the Governor and had been sent overland “in error” as opposed to by air.
The bags appear to have been stopped because Spain does not recognise the Office of the Governor as a diplomatic mission, meaning the shipment was not afforded standard diplomatic protections.
According to the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations, packages carrying official documents and other material deemed necessary for use by a diplomatic mission - provided that they are clearly marked as such - cannot be opened or detained.
You're a bit selective on your quoting there Fred. The UK acknowledged that this was not diplomatic mail at all. I can't even see a quote that they were even marked as such.

As for the dig at Spain not recognising the Office of the Governor of Gibraltar as a diplomatic mission, you'll find that no country, not even the UK, would recognise the Office of the Governor of Gibraltar as a diplomatic mission as it's inside their own state. I can't see how this is anyone's fault other than the person who sent the documents overland.
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Old Oct 28th 2022, 2:16 pm
  #1924  
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Originally Posted by SanNico
The UK acknowledged that this was not diplomatic mail at all.
Do you have a link to that?
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Old Oct 28th 2022, 3:57 pm
  #1925  
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Spain releases UK diplomatic bags after border hold-up (chronicle.gi)
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Old Oct 29th 2022, 11:00 am
  #1926  
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So they stuck some non-diplomatic mail in a diplomatic bag and sent it to a non-diplomatic destination and hoped for the best?
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Old Oct 29th 2022, 11:11 am
  #1927  
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I’d hazard a guess that they weren’t even marked. Guessing isn’t a good idea but that’s what the media reports are full of. Either way the Gib media look a bit silly with their half baked story full of innuendo.
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Old Oct 29th 2022, 11:13 am
  #1928  
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Originally Posted by DLC
So they stuck some non-diplomatic mail in a diplomatic bag and sent it to a non-diplomatic destination and hoped for the best?
Proof?
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Old Oct 29th 2022, 2:17 pm
  #1929  
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The conclusion I'm forced to draw after reading the link above.
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Old Oct 30th 2022, 9:22 am
  #1930  
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Originally Posted by DLC
The conclusion I'm forced to draw after reading the link above.
So no proof just a personal opinion!
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Old Oct 30th 2022, 9:28 am
  #1931  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by DLC
So they stuck some non-diplomatic mail in a diplomatic bag and sent it to a non-diplomatic destination and hoped for the best?
Are the Governors of other British Overseas Territories allowed to receive diplomatic bags?

Or are they also not diplomatic destinations

Or maybe this is just your anti Gibraltar stance being expressed

Were you a fanof EMR?
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Old Oct 30th 2022, 10:06 am
  #1932  
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A diplomatic mission is an embassy or consulate in another country which represents the sending country in the host state, so it looks very much like it doesn't apply from the government of a country/territory to the government of another country/territory.

If the UK wanted to do this properly, they would transport diplomatic bags to the UK embassy in Gibraltar, but there is none.

No anti-Gibraltar stance, I just try to stick to the facts. I'm very much in favour of deal between Gibraltar and Spain, it would be a good thing for both countries.

I did a Google search for EMR and East Midlands Railway was the top result, yes I think that is a good thing.

Last edited by DLC; Oct 30th 2022 at 10:11 am.
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Old Oct 31st 2022, 2:24 pm
  #1933  
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Originally Posted by DLC
A diplomatic mission is an embassy or consulate in another country which represents the sending country in the host state, so it looks very much like it doesn't apply from the government of a country/territory to the government of another country/territory.

If the UK wanted to do this properly, they would transport diplomatic bags to the UK embassy in Gibraltar, but there is none.
A diplomatic bag, also known as a diplomatic pouch, is a container with certain legal protections used for carrying official correspondence or other items between a diplomatic mission and its home government or other diplomatic, consular, or otherwise official entity

My definition varies from yours.

Are you claiming that the Governor of Gibraltar is not a diplomat or that the UK government doesn't have a clue on procedures?

Governor of Gibraltar - Gibraltar Timeline

I am surprised you are not aware of EMR your predecessor at knocking Gibraltar at every opportunity whether true or false until he was removed from this forum

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Old Oct 31st 2022, 4:11 pm
  #1934  
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This spat is getting silly. There's no confirmation that this was a diplomatic pouch, Fred's link even stipulated the UK confirmed it didn't contain diplomatic mail and the only evidence of press leaking I've seen is from Gib media. Someone from the UK made a mistake, they've admitted it. Spain followed the law/rules and someone is trying to accuse Spain of being awkward. Even the UK media aren't covering it because it's not verifiable.

There's no Gib bashing going on here. If anything it's Spain bashing and some of us are questioning the biased media quotes to give a balanced view.
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Old Oct 31st 2022, 4:18 pm
  #1935  
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Default Re: Gibraltar 2

Originally Posted by SanNico
This spat is getting silly. There's no confirmation that this was a diplomatic pouch, Fred's link even stipulated the UK confirmed it didn't contain diplomatic mail and the only evidence of press leaking I've seen is from Gib media. Someone from the UK made a mistake, they've admitted it. Spain followed the law/rules and someone is trying to accuse Spain of being awkward. Even the UK media aren't covering it because it's not verifiable.

There's no Gib bashing going on here. If anything it's Spain bashing and some of us are questioning the biased media quotes to give a balanced view.
Good post. Voice of reason.

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