Gas bottles?
 

The property I'm buying has a rudimentary kitchen at the back, with a hob set into a worktop, and the piping and connection for a gas bottle. I am a bit concerned about having a gas bottle indoors, I'm not sure if I will need planning permission to put it outside in some kind of housing, as I don't have a garden, and I'm not sure how far my boundary goes. I will check that out. I was wondering whether it's common and safe to have a gas bottle indoors. I know that nothing of that sort is totally safe, and there have been mains explosions as well as the odd bottle going up, would just value your thoughts. :)

Re: Gas bottles?
 

We have a gas fire, and that requires TWO gas bottles to be attached and containing gas at all times when it is in use, and the bottles are indoors, and a lot of people round here do have gas hobs, but the bottles are stored in cupboards next to the cooker

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Well if France is anything to go by having a gas bottle indoors, next to the stove , is not a problem, its very common there ,( I once had a place there ) and I am sure someone will tell you its the same in Spain, from the research I have done looking for properties on the net ( photos )it seems to be the norm .in fact you need to keep a spare bottle for when the one you are using runs out ! !Also do a search on this forum regarding the pipes used and there legal life span.. :unsure:

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Thanks for that. I feel reassured. Will make sure all the pipe work and connections are new. :)

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Yes its normal to keep the bottles indoors, you will have to sign a contract when you get the bottles, they usually deliver or you will find most garages keep them.
A refill is around 12 €`s now, almost doubled in price the last few years.
If they have the silver ones near you get those as they are much cleaner and a lot lighter than the red ones.

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Brenda it is quite normal to have the bottle indoors. Ours, for the hot water, lives under the sink with the spare next to it. To have a gas hob we would have needed a further botle located under the hob, so went for a ceramic hob as we wanted the space for storage.
We had the boiler fitted as part of the kitchen, and it was certified by the installer, and we had to show the certificate the first time we registered for the gas at the local Cepsa office. No problems at all.
However we had the Junckers engineer out to adjust the boiler recently and he informed us that 1. The flexible pipe leading from the top of the boiler to the vent in the wall no longer conformed to the regulations, that were altered I believe in 1998. A rigid tube is required. 2. On the outer wall we have a simple plastic cap and he said this did not conform either, and a right angle verticle pipe was specified. While neither was dangerous, he said at some time in the future it might be worth getting them changed, especially if we were ever trying to sell the place.

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You will also find that they are checked every few years as the connectors and pipes are dated. Usually the people you have a contract with will come round and check, replace the rubber pipes and bottle connectors, and then you are OK for another 5 years. If you don't have a contract, don't worry, they will give you one.

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Its cheaper to buy them yourself though, also there are scammers who come round in kosher looking uniforms and do it and charge well over the top.
The people you have the contract with will let you know by letter if their guys are coming round to check the hoses for the date, it is stamped on the hose, so if no letter then tell them you are phoning to check them out or to "go away" ;-)

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Hi Brenda,
As others have said, it is perfectly normal for gas bottles to be kept in the kitchen, next to the cooker!
It is a bit of a strange concept at first, but you soon get used to it.

Please be aware that you can't just ask the man who delivers the gas bottles to supply you with them! You have to arrange the contract with the company first (here it's Repsol) - and they won't supply you with any gas until you've had your property inspected by a "Technico" first.
This is to ensure that your kitchen is adequately ventilated to current standards and laws, which is obviously a good thing and gives you a bit more peace of mind :)

We arrived here last February, and it took us over two weeks to arrange the Technico visit!! That meant we were absolutely FREEZING for that amount of time, because no way was the gas man going to let us have a precious bottle!
I would suggest you get your local gas company to visit as soon as it's practical for you, because it can be colder indoors than outside, at this time of year!

We live in a rented house at the moment, and although there WAS a contract for this address, it was more than 5 years old (owner deceased) so it was invalid.
Hence we had to arrange one in our own names, and get the safety check carried out. (If you are going to rent, your landlord should pay for this - about 50 Euros - because the contract relates to the property)
You will be asked how many bottles you require (based on how many appliances you need gas for - i.e cooking/hot water, gas heater)
You have to buy the initial (full) bottles (around 15 Euros) and then as jdr says they are around 12 Euros to refil each time.
Don't forget to allow for a spare! There's nothing worse than your bottle running out, and you haven't got a spare! (Cold showers and no heating at this time of year is no fun! :( )
Luckily for us, even if both our bottles run out at the same time, we've got a very friendly Churreria friend opposite, and she'll always lend us a bottle until the next delivery. You'll no doubt find the same sort of generous people wherever you settle.
I don't know what it's like in other places, but we get two deliveries of gas every week. Listen for the loud "honking" of the horn - that tells you the gas man cometh!

For additional peace of mind, we have also invested in a carbon monoxide detector.

Hope this is helpful to you.
Best wishes,
Sam.

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Procedures are obviously different in other areas of Spain as always !
We went to the Cepsa office in the next town with our certificate of installation from the plumber, complete with the hoses that conformed to the previous regs, registered, and paid somewhere around 30 or 40 EU for the aluminium bottles. The refills are cheaper, as said around 12 Eu. No on was required to come over and check the installation. They told us next time we were over to come and collect some other form, and gave us a tel number in case we wanted them delivered. When we went back some 3 months later, the office had closed down and moved, no one can tell us where to, so a year later we are merely buying our replacement bottles from the local garage with no problems at all. I do know others who never went anywhere near the office, but just showed a garage or other supplier their first certificate and got the initial bottles.

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Wow! And to think we were made to jump through hoops for a fortnight - all the time shivering, and wearing 3 layers of clothes indoors!!

The beauty of Spanish life - such diversity in all areas!! :D

Re: Gas bottles?
 

We have had a contract with Repsol since 2004 to supply the gas bottles needed for our central heating. We have ten bottles in a separate gas house, with only 5 in use at any time so we can maintain a supply of gas. Five of these large orange bottles (each about 4 feet high) cost 158 euros last spring. This price has now increased to 212 euros in less than twelve months:sneaky: Given that 5 bottles is only about 3 weeks supply in the coldest weather we would be interested in knowing more about the 'silver' bottles.
What is the name of the company that supplies them, is it Cepsa, do you need a contract, and do you know if they do the large bottles as opposed to the smaller ones which are used solely for cooking...
Any help/advice anyone can give would be much appreciated. We are in the Denia/Oliva area. Thanks.

Re: Gas bottles?
 

OK ... I have just looked up the Cepsa site, in English, which I believe is a competitor to Repsol, and it seems that gas prices are centrally controlled by Government taking into account seasonal demand amongst other factors ... so looks like there is nothing to do but grin and bear it!

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On a small urb near us they have a central tank and the gas is piped to the houses, I wonder if that would be cheaper for you, my parents had one of those in the UK and had it filled once every couple of months.

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i dont know were you all live we are in almeria we dont have are bottles in side the house one it is not safe no ventalation iit is needed. ares are kept out side in a cupboured and piped into the house .water heaters should be out side as well on a wall with a cage round them .last year a expat died as his gas was in side the house no ventalation .my husband used to be a caravan machanic would not dream of having the gas inside. be safe every one get your gas outside sorry helen.

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We live in the campo and don't get our bottles delivered. Mind you, we haven't got a gas contract either. We, and all of our neighbours just buy the orange bottles from the local monthly car boot sale. Average price is about 25€ for an empty bottle, then about 12€ to exchange for a full one at the local petrol garage. We have about eight bottles and that does us fine.

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I think they are slowly trying to take the small orange bottles out of circulation. Mind you, we've been hearing that for 3 years now....

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Our gas bottles are located in a purpose built-gas-house about 10 metres from the main house. I agree it is not safe to house gas bottles indoors

As for the 12 euro orange bottles ..... surely they are not the enormous ones we have (I think they are 35kg each) .... I have never seen our type at petrol stations.... nor could I possibly lift one when full!

Please keep the replies coming .. it is all very interesting .... thanks

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Hi Noelrosie and welcome to the forum.

The 12€ orange bottles are the small ones (for cookers & heaters, etc) not the ones you are using.

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Thanks for the welcome MnM ....:D
We don't live in Spain at the moment, although plan to move out in a couple of years when the kids have finished university.
I was delighted to find this website when searching the internet for information on the recent Gota Fria in the Costa Blanca. There is so much useful information on here.
I suspected that we weren't talking about the same gas bottles (the 12 euro ones) as we run underfloor central heating throughout the villa when it is occupied. I realise now that this is very much a luxury in Spain, as is never having to wear a jumper indoors, on the plus side. None of our immediate neighbours do this, relying on estufas, real fires, electric heaters etc for those chilly winter nights .....
But it is good to hear of other people's experiences on this and so many other topics...:)

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Yes, I did think that 3 weeks of 5 large orange bottles was a bit over the top, but then if you have underfloor heating, that explains everything.

This site is a great source of info (even for those of us that have lived here for a while) and it's always good to hear of peoples experiences, whether they live here full or part time ;)

Re: Gas bottles?
 

Hi noelrosie and welcome,

In the villa we are having built I would like to have underfloor central heating (my sister has just installed it in her new house in Wales) but my architect says it will not be necessary with the insulation and inverter air con. I am undecided. I don't think it would be a luxury. What do you think?

Regards,

John.
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Re: Gas bottles?
 

Hi John
Only you can decide whether or not it is a luxury. To heat a brand-new, detached, three-bed, three-bathroom villa, with double-glazed windows and doors, to a temperature equivalent to what we expect in England is costing us 200 euros every 3 to 4 weeks in the coldest weather .... on the plus side .... everyone locally is envious of the ambient heat we enjoy, because it means that you do not experience cold spots/rooms/mould etc etc.
Can't comment on the effect of inverter air-con because we do not have it ....
Nights in Spain can be colder than you think, and on a visit to Denia last year in January we actually had snow! Frost is also not uncommon!
Wish we could be of more help ... but good luck anyway!

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Our gas bottles ( Cepsa) came from the local petrol station, walked in with the paperwork for two bottles, paid the 80€ and shoved them in the car boot!! No other legalities were asked for, no home checks or anything. Refills in Sept were 9€ each, don't know what they will be next week when we return.

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Our big issue is 'how big are yours';)
Ours are over 1 metre tall and contain 35 kg gas (torpedo style)..... which is why it is difficult to pick them up at the local petrol station!
xxxxx

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We have the 12.5kg orange bottles delivered by Repsol. I think the current price is 12.60€. As stated before, the price of gas is government controlled so as five of your 35kg bottles is equivalent to 14 12.5kg bottles you shouldn't be paying more than about 180€.

When we arrived here in 2003 we were quoted 7,500€, by Repsol to install central heating with the five large bottles. In the end we decided to fit three invertor heating/aircon units at just over 3,000€.

We heat the lounge/dining room with one and just before bedtime we turn on the other two in the two bedrooms we use (only one now as our daughter is at uni).

Over the four years we have been here our largest two month electricity bill has been 134.13€ which has been for the mid November to mid January period.

When we have guests we use oil filled radiators in their rooms.

We have one of those portable gas heaters, that take a 12.kg bottle, in the bathroom, one bottle lasts Nov-March when it's used. We also use gas for hot water (12.5kg lasts about 10-14 days in the winter and about 3 weeks in the summer), and for the hob, about six months per bottle.

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Also against the law to carry the 35kg gas bottles in the car I believe.

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We find that aircon heating causes dryness of eyes and throat and so never use them for heating purposes.....and especially not in the bedroom.

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Noelrosie,

Have you thought about installing a gas tank? That is, of course, if you've got the available space. Usually a builder who would have installed underfloor heating should have recommended that instead of bottles.

I think it's more cost effective AND obviously you don't have to refill as often, but again the tank needs to be housed and x metres away from the house (and any other houses in the area) and all other security measures that need to be taken.

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Luckily for us that hasn't been a problem, perhaps the inverters are different?

Our lounge is currently 21c and 58% humidity. not too dry?

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Now totally used to gas bottles but would like to share with you all my experience of my first weekend in Spain seven years ago.

All my flatmates had gone to their villages for the weekend. I arrived on a Friday night and to my horror found gas bottles for cooking and hot water and didn't have a clue how to use them. So my first weekend here was spent eating telepizza takeaways and having cold showers. I also broke the blind in the living room and couldn't get onto the balcony. Great start!!:o

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That is definitely something to look into when we make the move out here permanently!
xxx

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it shoudnt be a problem at all

Re: Gas bottles?
 

I think that would make around 75% of all Spanish properties uninhabitable then.

Why would the water heater need to be outside? Boilers/water heaters in the UK are normally inside. I can see the lack of ventilation for products of poor combustion (carbon monoxide) being a large issue with caravan's - they are generally small with limited ventilation, but most UK & Spanish properties have their boiler inside.

Not everyone lives in a villa by the way - the properties in my town frequently dont have an outside to store bottles, what about apartments etc?

Re: Gas bottles?
 

we hae a old farm house and would still have all are gas out side water boilers in spain are run off gas bottles it is not safe you need to vent them out side im sorry if ive up set any of you but gas bottles in side is not safe if you are in a apartment you need to have them checked every month make sure you have a window open when using them for ventilation .all of are gas bottles are out side it isnt a problem its best to be safe than sorry. helen