Foreigners save Spain's......
 

......Tourist industry.

http://www.thelocal.es/20130903/fore...tourism-summer

Seems a lot of Spanish had no option but to stay at home whilst the Egypt effect has helped boost numbers from N.Europe to the Costas at least.

Looks like an on-going battle between the Govt trying to boost the failing hotel trade and Tourists who much prefer to make their own arrangements with private lets.
They've already made life as difficult as possible for those wishing to arrange private deals or go self catering.

I think the net step will be to put a gun at visitors heads at point of arrival and frog march them into the nearest hotel. ;)
Alternatively, the way things are moving they're just as likely to tax them 200 euros each if they don't agree to staying in a hotel.

Whatever happened to freedom of choice ?


""In terms of general trends in tourism, hotels also appearing to be falling out of favour.

Although Spain had received 34 million tourists to the end of July, the country's hotels only clocked up 37.6 million hotel nights.

That's just over one night per visitor.

Instead, people are opting to stay in private accommodation — a trend which worries both professor Duro and Asetur president Jesús Marco.

Duro said Spain need to regulate this economic activity while Marco spoke of a system without "quality guarantees" where "people have to bring their own sheets with them".""

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Spanish hoteliers have long been a very powerful lobbying force. God knows they've paid enough in backhanders to entitle them to a voice.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Spain, despite having an "uncompetitive currency/economy" has fought hard to exit the biggest recession in years, by searching out new export markets, and new tourist markets eg the Russians.
The UK on the other hand has had a policy of printing money and devaluing the pound. To an extent you can't criticise this, as it "appears" to be working. Time will tell...

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Yes, that's fairly obvious from the recent moves made in their favour by the Govt.

However times have changes since the early cheap all inclusive package deals when visitors looked on a holiday in Spain almost like a trip to another planet and needed every tiny detail organised to perfection ahead of their trip.

Apart from the fact that visitors can now independently get far better deals outside of the hotel trade, their attitudes have changed in other ways and they now hop on a plane as they would hop on a bus looking for a more relaxing free and easy style of holiday without the regimental restrictions of hotel life and being followed around by an army of stuffed penguins all day.

I think it's time the Govt got their heads around the fact and realized that for many visitors that's the way the future is going to be, rather than knocking their heads on the wall or shooting themselves in the foot trying to force ppl. in a direction they don't wish to go, by making life so difficult for small independent private operators.

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WTF !

Stevie have you got nothing better to do than follow me around trying to turn every topic on the Spanish section into a UK p!ssing competition.

Time you got yourself a life lad.

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He brings the UK into it but not even sticking to topic of tourism which is booming in the UK:blink:

So.....Spanish tourism must be down. Increase in foreign visitors 4%. Decrease in national visitors 7%.

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You're right of course - London is heaving with tourists. (not that I ever see planes that aren't full, wherever I travel in Spain)
Are numbers going to continue rising like this? No surprise that most of my local pubs have converted their premises to provide accommodation for backpackers.
We may get that new London airport after all...

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

I reckon the increase in popularity of private rentals is because holidaymakers generally get a lot more for the money than paying a fortune to stay in a crowded resort.

The hotels are entitled to that money without pesky competition from little piss-arsed private rentals offering a lot more for less. Besides, that money from the hotels helps the poor economies of Germany, UK, US, and UAE.

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Steady on!
What you're suggesting almosts like promoting an enterprise culture :eek:. Spain has a long history of doing exactly the opposite: increasing taxes, increasing bureacracy and imposing new rules, laws and restrictions.
All in the name of preserving existing jobs and businesses, no matter how bloated, inefficient or expensive that makes the goods or services being offered.

What made Spain a popular destination was the weather and the cheapness. The weather hasn't changed but it's no longer the bargain destination it was in the 70s and 80s. While holidaymakers have become wealthier and more demanding over the past 40 years, all that means is that they are prepared to travel further and want more for their money. So Spain is now competing with newer, cheaper (but equally sunny) countries - without offering anything extra for the additional costs it's imposing.

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Tell me about it, never seen so many in my area! Bloody glad the kids have gone back to school. I walk just about every day, went to a popular spot yesterday and there were 5 cars there, last week must have been in excess of 100. I know several people that rent out holiday accommodation and some of them have said their bookings have been down, many are opting for tents and caravans. Same with Spain, I was reading many Spanish are still taking holidays, but for shorter durations, cheaper accommodation and eating at home rather than eating out.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

My nearest beaches are crammed with Spanish and French holiday makers who either own or rent flats mostly. One of my friends said that the tourist are spending an average of 70 euros per person per day but I am not sure where he got that information from and also not sure whether he meant nationally or locally.

Rosemary

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

We are returning to France shortly but have been here since April. During that time I have seen quite a few French registered cars. Not sure that they are owners or renters? Believe them to be the latter.

Conventional wisdom is that the French spend their holidays in France for like Spain it is a diverse country both in culture and weather. And of course the French believe their country their language and cuisine to be the only one in the world. Not so I am afraid and I have lived there for years.

Have spoken to quite a few and asked 'why' the answer is relatively straightforward it is the cost of living. France is now (and has always been in my opinion) very expensive. This area is not again in my opinion. You can eat out most days and it does not involve huge costs.

So for the people or Bordeaux and Toulouse it is within easy driving distance although many plates (not cuisine wise) are prefixed with 7 which is the Paris region.

People vote with their feet and Spain and high rise hotels and the like are in my opinion outdated people now have choice and access to both apartments and villas and do not wish to be shepherded into hotels. For the hotel market is entirely different and with the numbers diminishing. But for some down to the High Street and Thompson and glossy brochures perfect! But look what's is happening to the High Street Market in the UK.

However it is another argument as to whether rental income finds its way in either HMG or Spanish coffers.

You can now fly from most UK airports to Alicante hire a car and before leaving home and via the internet booked a villa. What could be easier?

This ground swell is not capable of being stopped and if attempts are made to restrict this movement again we will say 'lets try ............... this year'

As to Spanish nationals a local supermarket here is positioned next to a holiday complex. The owner says he is having a terrible time for the Spanish are taking less holidays staying for week ends and really are looking around before committing to buying. Their purchasing power is also being hit.

best wishes

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

The move to make it more difficult for people to rent villas to try to make them use hotels is fraught with misconceptions.

The Authorities actually think that if people don't rent a villa, they will go and stay in a hotel for two weeks? Nope. If people are forced to stay in a hotel for two weeks rather than take their choice of freedom in a villa, then they will go to Portugal, Greece, wherever instead, where they can exercise their choice. Spain loses again. Not rocket science :)

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

:goodpost:

Absolutely correct.

Are they really stupid enough to think it would work?

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Exactly.

This policy of trying to force people against their will simply won't work in the long term, despite the punitive measures being heaped upon private independant operators.

More shades of Francoism, so typical of the present Govt.

Time for Spain to move into the 21st century.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

If history is any guide, that won't happen until at least the next century.

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Everything they do works against them. Its as if they are on a suicide mission. The ancient coastal laws reinstated, the old Land Grab situation, the asset declaration situation that made people nervous because of the uncertainty. If I ran a business like this, I would soon run out of customers

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As you say, it simply won't work. We use hotels, but more often than not private rentals, legally registered one's I hasten to add!;) I go along with the idea of inspecting and registering B&B's, private villas etc, if only to safeguard the security and safety aspects. Fire extinguishers, gas checked etc. Friends of ours rent some of their properties through James Villas, and they have satisfy themselves that everything is perfect before they take properties on. At the front of one of the properties there are some railings to stop anyone coming out of the house and heading straight into the pool, JV made them put mesh between the railings as they reckon it was possible (just, with a squeeze!) for a child to get it's head stuck between them! :confused: That may be over the top, but at least you could stay in any of his properties safe in the knowledge that everything had been checked. Some unregistered rentals are deathtraps. Mind you, so are some hotels!:D

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Exactly, suicide mission just abut sums it up.

We will sorting out our non-residency from Jan 14.

Getting our UK residency back, and spending the rest of the year between Spain and Portugal, where we are renting a small house long term.

(We would not by any property that is not located in the UK)

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

I'm sure I read somewhere that Spain had the biggest number of British holidaymakers ever this year. And that's despite Gibraltar and everything else.

Spain is hopeless at promoting itself because it has never had to. The visitors and expats just keep on coming because of the country's natural attractions, the weather, and dare I say it, the people.

Their service industry is a shambles, the funcionarios are renowned for their rudeness, but ordinary Spanish people are a treasure with a sense of humour missing from half of the rest of Europe.

My wife has just left for another bout of idiotic bureaucracy, but she just laughs it off and I've seen her make even the rudest civil servant smile.

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We usually stay in hotels but the Spanish have a weird star rating system. Many 5* places only offer buffet meals and hardly any room service menu. It can work that some 3* are much better if chosen carefully.

Stayed in one at Carmona which was listed as one of the worlds leading hotels...WTF:blink: Reminded me of a student flat in the seventies complete with ancient TV and it smelt:sneaky:

The problem with tourist figures is that they count bums on seats. Many are going to their own properties or to stay with relatives, even Spaniards returning for holidays and wouldn't be considering a hotel.

I don't think the Gibraltar factor will show up yet as most will have already booked. Although it made little difference under Franco.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

The UK requires people to register many properties for letting, be it a holiday let or a longer term tenancy, to make sure certain standards (including safety) are met.

Spain attempts the same and suddenly it's just a case of the Spanish government caving in to the lobbies? There's more to it than that I think.

The last two times I have rented a private villa I have had to put up with old mattresses destroying my back. I have had to go out and buy cutlery and cooking pans because what was provided was impossible to use. I've been given no information by the agent (the last one I never even met, we just exchanged keys via the letterbox). No mention of fire exits and safety drills. And of course not an "hoja de reclamación" in sight. Any chance of regulating them so that some minimum standards are guaranteed must be a step in the right direction.

Yes I know the motivation behind this is the hotel lobby, but they do have a point. Also, let's face it, may private landlords don't declare their tax either. A bit of regulation won't go amiss. In practice of course it will make little difference. Some areas simply don't have enough hotels to accommodate the tourists and are completely reliant on private lets to get the tourists in. The local council isn't going to kill the goose by reducing trourist accommodation. However some light regulation might make their stay a bit better.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

The UK requires people to register many properties for letting, be it a holiday let or a longer term tenancy, to make sure certain standards (including safety) are met.

Spain attempts the same and suddenly it's just a case of the Spanish government caving in to the lobbies? There's more to it than that I think.

The last two times I have rented a private villa I have had to put up with old mattresses destroying my back. I have had to go out and buy cutlery and cooking pans because what was provided was impossible to use. I've been given no information by the agent (the last one I never even met, we just exchanged keys via the letterbox). No mention of fire exits and safety drills. And of course not an "hoja de reclamación" in sight. Any chance of regulating them so that some minimum standards are guaranteed must be a step in the right direction.

Yes I know the motivation behind this is the hotel lobby, but they do have a point. Also, let's face it, many private landlords don't declare their tax either. A bit of regulation won't go amiss. In practice of course it will make little difference. Some areas simply don't have enough hotels to accommodate the tourists and are completely reliant on private lets to get the tourists in. The local council isn't going to kill the goose by reducing trourist accommodation. However some light regulation might make their stay a bit better.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Exactly, but I didn't want to bring UK into the thread, we have experts here at doing that! :rofl: Not referring to you!

Like you, I'm all for getting all the cowboy renters inspected and paying tax, why should they not pay tax on their earnings?

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

..because it's the hotelier's money. They are entitled to dominate the market and it's just not fair that the average Jose can do it too, no matter how much they may be struggling. After all, the hotel chains spend a lot of money on buying politicians to ensure they get their just reward. How many lowly homeowners bother (or can afford) to pay off the tourism board?

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

If they took away the cowboy renters from the area I know well, the place would be empty. The people from Madrid would have to stay at home for their holidays.

They're back home now, having caused havoc for another year. I had to go into town yesterday and parking and everything else was an absolute pleasure.

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September was my favourite month. Everyone gone, no more queues, kids back at school but still summer weather:D

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The point being, is that around CB North it's well known that if you apply for approval you very rarely get it even if you apply all the requirements, and once you have applied and been rejected you are then under scrutiny

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

From the first link.......

"Although Spain had received 34 million tourists to the end of July, the country's hotels only clocked up 37.6 million hotel nights.
That's just over one night per visitor."

Pretty well tells its own story, ppl.are voting with their feet and their pockets so why fight against it,........ other than to pocket a nice backhander or two from the hoteliers association of course.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

Even if you ignore the hotel implications, given the pitiful state that the Spanish economy is in you'd think the Spanish government would be desperate to get this tax in. A quick scan through the web will throw up thousands of holiday lets, mostly probably illegal, it's not surprising that Spain reckons the black economy costs it the equivalent to 25% of GDP. I know the registration of these properties has been in the news lately, but as usual Spain makes lots of noises, drafts all sorts of laws but rarely implements them.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

I think there should be some legislation some of the owners are very good and make there holiday let home from home, but there are some that are really awful renters and with awful villas / apartments who do not care.

For me they can if you let it get to you ruin what could be a really good holiday.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

If the picture in the private sector is as black as you paint it then why on earth the continuing stampede away from the hotel trade ?

People quickly learn and word soon gets about regarding which lets are decent quality and good value and which ones are not and judging by the figures, the vast majority are quite happy with what they get for their hard earned cash.

Much better than relying on artists impressions of hotels then finding yourself in the middle of a building site, though I doubt very much if the Govt care a toss about that side of the tourist trade as long as they get their cut.

Re: Foreigners save Spain's......
 

ahh I can only answer that from my own experience, when we have rented peoples apartments / villas it is only because for us it was in a non resort area where hotels are either limited, full or too expensive, or a low star rating.

The last one was awful, I should have asked questions before but I ran out of time, booked at short notice and regretted it massively, the good thing was it was so bad we went to Benidorm the Villaitana and had a wonderful time just by the pool.

The thing was we wanted to try that town to see if my partner liked it to live, so it did not go very well.

We have stayed in some blinders though, one in Altea that was so awesome, like a footballers pad and everything worked.

There is pro's and con's of Hotel or holiday let - my last one went bad as I did not research it properly and just went by the pictures, very unlike me but pressure of work at the time.

A good thing came out of it as I had always wanted to try that Villaitana hotel.