Filling in porch?
 

Hi everyone, Well the die is cast I am now the owner of a property near Nerja and I'm sure my problems have just begun!

We appear to have a porch which is not listed on the deeds (Surprise, Surprise). We have a architects plan, stamped with a date 2003, whether this is to show the new porch or not we have no idea. Anyway, what is the consequences of filling in this porch to have a kitchen area?

Hubby is a little frightened that he's going to get carted off to jail...hahahah!:confused:

Re: Filling in porch?
 

If the porch is not legal, then filling it in will not help ;) However, there are a number of people on here that will tell you not to worry and to just do it!

You really need to go and see the architect to understand what he has done and what has been granted (if anything). It may simply be that the deeds have not been updated!

Re: Filling in porch?
 

What, even though we've just seen them and had them read out at the Notary office? Didn't realise that this porch wasn't mentioned, it has been standing probably since 2003 because of the condition of the posts (they need re-newing).

Will I get fined, if I do, approx how much could it be?

Is it better to get it passed, will they let me change it anyway?

Son's attitude is (don't ask, someone will always say NO!)

Re: Filling in porch?
 

This is THE problem in Spain with properties and legal/illegal properties. If the property doesnt match the escritura then legally/technically you can be fined or they can ask you to demolish the descrepancy, but for 99% of people, they wont.

There is no black or white answer.

There are some things you can check though
e.g. what is the land of your property classified as? Rural, urban or semi-urban? i.e. if you wanted to extend your house what would be the likelihood you'd be given permission?

You got to decide what your priorty is. Is it peace of mind or making the best of the porch?

If it was me, I would rennovate the porch and not say anything to anyone. Chances are noone will care, it is only a small piece of building work.

If you are a worrier, then maybe you should spend the time and money for getting the porch recognised on the escritura. it may cost you a lot of time and money though! :)

Re: Filling in porch?
 

better to get it passed - if you don't, then fill it in, then someone complains (or even if no-one does), you stand the risk of it being knocked down

which I imagine might cause problems to the main structure?

I once did a translation where a tenant had filled in an 'illegal' (as in not on the plans) roof terrace, creating a room on the roof

the neighbours complained & the owner of the property eventually had to destroy the new room

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Yes that is a good point. If the porch effects the neighbours views or quality of living in anyway, then dont rennovate until it is recognised legally

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Wise advice, it's a case of "if you have to ask, you know what the answer is anyway".

Crickey...can of worms isn't it.

Whilst here, my pool is empty at the moment, would I have the same problems as in UK (ground pressure/water pressure) hydrostatic valve needed? Don't want to find it's risen 2 feet in the air by the time I return.

O'h to get away from 10" of snow..getting fed up with it now!

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Alot depends on how visable from the road you are. We had police come and take photos & stop us, when we were spotted building 6 concrete block colums for a pergola.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

You need to be careful if you live in Nerja - they are pretty hot on building work without a licence.

Allegedly they have a guy who rides around the town looking for any signs of work (pile of sand in the road etc) and then checks the property against the list at the town hall.

An illegal porch is not too serious but converting into a habitable area definitely needs permission.

A friend in Nerja built his roof terrace into a bedroom and shortly afterwards had a demolition order served - they haven't enforced it yet but it stays on the file and presents problems when selling.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Firstly, things missing on deeds is common but if you have the architects plans it should show the porch. If it was built after 2003 and not on plans, whoever built it should have got permission from the local council, if they didn't it seems no one has complained, that doesn't make it legal or illegal.
However if you are going to change it's usage then rightfully you should get permission, you can take a chance and just go ahead and hope no one objects but then there maybe consequences.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

It was built in 2000, but these plans that we found in the house have a stamp from the college of architects in malaga dated 2003. Can only assume that if they have an official stamp on them, then possibly they have asked the council for permission to build it even though it's not on the deeds as such.

Does anyone think that the council would say no if we asked to fill it in with opening doors, we are in the countryside and I know how hot they are on any more building, but if it is already there......

Re: Filling in porch?
 

You say you want to do this to extend kitchen which is changing the usage which you should get permission for.Not knowing the size of your porch it's hard to say, whilst a small area may not be a problem what would you gain in space to make it all worthwhile.
You can always just go ahead and do it without permission with a view that you may have to put it back at some time, if you're only putting doors on I can't see a problem either way really.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

The problem of asking for permission to change use etc is that you bring it to the attention of the local authority that it exists, and if its not legal, then they may decide to do something.

Catch 22.

If you do close it in, paint it ASAP, so that it does not stand out as new.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Surely you are not suggesting doing something that is illegal?:)

This practice of ignoring the local planning rules is very common amongst the local Spanish as they rarely sell their properties - they just give/bequeath them to their family.

The problem comes when you try and sell the property and the details of what now exists does not match up with what is on the escritura and on the Catastral register.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Well Fred, I have lived here 22 years, I guess I have accepted that things are done her which one would do say in UK.

Yep, I would close in the porch and probably nothing would ever happen.

As for the property being different on the escritura, I have bought and sold several properties which were a little different and, so far, never had a problem.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

thing is, a lot of people accepted that 'they just do it that way in Spain' & are now living with demolition orders............................

Re: Filling in porch?
 

Yes true, although nothing is life is without risk

You've got more chance of dying in a car accident than having your house demolished (cue, for posts on how bad Spanish drivers are :rofl:)

Given that thousands die on the roads each year and only a handful have had their house demolished.

Still, it is worth knowing the situation correctly of course, so one can make an informed decision. However, always doing everything by the book limits your options in life.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

thing is, a lot of people accepted that 'they just do it that way in Spain' & are now living with demolition orders.

But you are speaking in the main about new constructions, not the odd addition.

As far as I know the properties being demolished were built ether without a building licence or with or one that was granted illegally by a local authority.

The sad part is that its not the actual people responsibly who are being penalised. By that I mean the individuals being fined and having their personal funds seized. Now that would be nearer to justice than the present way.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

My house was built 30 years ago and bought by a Spanish family. I bought it from them ten years ago, with an independent solicitor, and did everything per book, including handing over a ridiculous sum of money in cash, as advised by all concerned.

But things have changed now, it appears that what I did is no longer legal. The previous owner had made many additions to the property, doubling the size, installing a swimming pool, and filling in more than just one porch. I don’t need to check with anyone, no official permission was obtained for any of it.

There is no way that I will do anything to legalise any of it, it can’t be done, but I’m now thinking of selling and with all these Honest Joes bouncing around I’m sure to run into trouble.

Whatever I do, it’s going to cost me a lot of money. My only hope is that the current mayor, a multi-millionaire, doesn’t get his collar felt before I manage to sell, if the left-wingers get in I won’t be able to sell and the bulldozers will be rumbling down the street.

Re: Filling in porch?
 

and did everything per book, including handing over a ridiculous sum of money in cash,

HGB.

I think you mean by that, the price you paid was more that the price declared. If so that was illegal, but I agree it was the 'normal' way. I did it several, times both buying and selling.

Incidentally, I have never employed a solicitor to buy or sell. Having 30 experience as a CID officer in UK I am very wary of all lawyers. They often cost one a lot f money but when the chips are down it is you who still looses out.