cricketman

They fiddle the numbers. Officially the factory produces 2000 blocks per week, but they actually produce 3,000. 2,000 go on the books and they pay IVA, 1000 get sold on the black market. This happens with so many things and even with people's salaries.

Offically they earn say 1,500 euros per month, but get an extra 300 cash in hand

This facilitates business when margins are very tight but actually there is very little to be gained by people who earn less than 20-25k per year. They would be better off declaring all income as the tax rebates are pretty generous especialy if you have children

angiescarr

Tell me about these generous tax rebates!!!!! You get a percentage back at the end of the year...that you didn't owe in the first place. Equal approximately to your allowance in the UK but meanwhile you've paid excess on things you've been unable to pay (Seguridad social for example) because your small amount of money has been in hacienda's bank for a year. And you've collected IVA on everything. Don't for a moment think a small business can actually add it on to the customer's bills no-one will pay high prices now. As for giving up a creative job for a better paid one, well, would you tell artists and inventors etc throughout history to give up what they did to work on the telephones for for Wonga.com? I tell you there'd be a lot of people surprised how very low can be the income of known artists they assume are well paid even wealthy because their names are 'known'. Unfortunately you can't live on fame alone. And, even if you can do just about anything you lay your hands to Cman, do you know anyone who could/would employ me in Spain or the UK at the moment....just like that and on an income which would make a difference? Didn't think so! But if you do...please tell me. My husband too. I could tell you several other ways artists are shafted by piracy of media and chinese copying of work etc but I'm not going to be a winger. At least not on this thread . I take responsibility for my actions and work bloody hard. Always have. And that's exactly the point. If you live 'sustainably' in the real sense... It's unsustainable in the dog-eat-dog world. People need to get real about what this world needs. It doesn't need more wonga.com employees or even more rocket scientists. It actually doesn't need millions working more than 40 hour weeks while other millions don't work at all. It needs a radical rethink and anyone who is making a valid contribution should earn a valid income and not have to support the greedy or the dishonest. I know it sounds as if I'm having a personal go at you Mr C but I'm not. This is a general rant about peoples assumptions and glib comments based on their own experiences, their own work ethic, snap value judgements and their political bias. A hard working artist who has made/makes a difference to peoples lives can't and shouldn't be asked to change direction at 57 because the governments are in the thrall of the money markets. People should be honest and stick by the rules but those rules should be just...and they're just.....not!

amideislas

I agree wholeheartedly, but again I would argue that policy has become over-engineered to prevent prosperity, grossly favouring big politically-connected entities who employ 1000's of average people, who ultimately assume the lion's share of burden through high taxation, high VAT and other burdens.

That's our system. You're supposed to work for the Government, Seat, Telefonica, or Endesa all your life, and accept your meager pension at the end. What happens in-between isn't any of your business, any you shouldn't be so naive as to believe you can make it any other way. And if you do, well, you'd better keep it quiet...

angiescarr

interesting pertinent article :-http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/10/tax-benefits-citizens-income-self-employment

Did tell me that the tax free personal allowance in England is now significantly greater than it is here too.

bobd22

Basic allowance in UK now £10,000

scampicat

This was the thing I found most difficult about living in Spain. I actually found it very stressful

The other expats (and some of the Spaniards) in our village thought we were mad for matriculating the car.

A friend of mine's house was found to be illegal (they bought it in good faith). They decided to appeal the decision as they had done nothing wrong and had been lied to by the notary. They found EVERYONE including other expats, were against them. One said, ' it's their own fault, they should not have argued'. In other words, pay the mayor and it will go no further . But they were innocent and wanted justice. Fat chance. It just cost them a load of money and their house is classed as illegal anyway.

It is an aspect of Spain I have never missed since we left.

cricketman

I agree 100%

It is a very difficult way to live life. You are trying to play tennis while everyone else is playing football But ideally in a just world then yes everyone could do what they like and get paid comfortably for it

HBG

We're about to sign up for a pirate TV service. The whole set up is kind of 'illegal' but it's by far the best and most efficient around - you couldn't get the same service legally, not for any amount of 'legal' money. The company is run by a local politician, an all Spanish set up.

My wife telephoned to ask what documents we required to sign the contract. A NIE number and the necessary cash, and the NIE number could be arranged if it wasn't to hand.

I've only commented on it because of this thread. It's all perfectly normal and ultra efficient.

Madridboy

IMO go for the "arranged" NIE