Grazy

Expat-Education.

Hi All,
My son was born in Spain and educated in the state system until he was 13.

At 13 his English was not fantastic and we took the decision to pay for him to attend an English international college. He had to choose whether to go to a school that offered the traditional IGCSE/A Level syllabus or go for the International Baccalaureate.

He chose to do IGCSE’s and then A Levels.

Was this the best decision are A Levels still the best choice?

keithwalters

That probably depends on what path your son would like to follow from now on. Is he going to university? If so which country? Where does he plan to work when he finished education and what does he plan to do?

gallerie9

I agree with Keith on that one, but I think I would have let my child study the international baccalaureate. Both allow a student access into University. The IB is a broader curriculum.

Grazy

Hi,

I am more concerned with how readers think that A Levels are perceived v IB, by universities and employers.

I total agree that each child must look at his/her individual merits+ the direction he/she wants to take in the longer term, before making a choice.

My son is an academic, so he chose A Levels (M, Phy. Chem. + A/S Business and Eng.) and he will now choose between a Spanish (economical for us) and British university and we hope that that will end up being the best route for him.

But I am sure that IB is a better route for those who want a wider education. Perhaps a more interesting and fulfilling route too?

Please let us know what you think?
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gallerie9

They are evaluated the same way for Uni entry in the UK, I have no experience of the Uni system in Spain.
Employers, they will be looking at the course studied at Uni, the GCSE and A level marks are a secondary consideration. A dont think many employers in the Uk have a great deal of experience of IB.
Good luck to your son on his results and I am sure you will find the best route for him to take.
Where has he applied for and what course does he intend to follow ?

sunnydee

As from this September Spanish Uni's will accept A level qualifications without the need for students to take the Selectividad (sp.) exam. So I suppose this shows that they are as valid in Spain.
As someone says I am sure there are pros and cons for all types of exams depending on the child and their interests.

Grazy

Thanks Gallerie9 for your informative reply and good wishes.

My son has just sat the midpoint exams (A/S’s). He’ll get his results on 16th Aug., so will be applying to unis next year.

At this point in time he’s talking about London universities Royal Holloway/St Mary’s but we may be retired by then, so I don’t know whether he’d be able to pay his way without borrowing from the government. We would help him as much as we could afford and perhaps my brother and his wife who have helped him thru to this point might stay on board.

I personally had a grant, but still had to work during all the holidays in order to pay my way, but if you pick a tough degree course then you need the holidays to study/cover the reading workload.

My son is worried that Spanish degrees may not carry the same weight as British degrees. Can anybody throw light on this question?

gallerie9

A spanish degree is as relevant as an English one
He could also do a year on a Erasmus exchange ( i am not sure that is how it is spelt) but this is an option in a lot of courses. He can exchange with a Uni in the Uk for a year.

mikelincs

There has been talk of replacing A levels by a UK version of the Baccalaureat this is because many people feel A levels and the GCSE have benn 'dumbed down' to make it seem as though the system is getting better. I must admit, having seen some GCSE papers, I think they are far INFERIOR to the old O Level.

EsuriJohn

Hi Grazey,

You like me got a grant but you had to work every holiday (post at christmas, United Glass Bottle in summer, "taking in" almost molten glasses, thats hot work). My son has just finished his first year and he did bar work to earn his beer money as well as the loan.

But there is a quirk. If you come to UK from the EU but overseas then you can claim the Fees and maintenance loans just like anyone else and you would be expected to repay them when your taxable earnings reach about £15,000 pa by deductions from your monthly pay packet with the tax and NI. However the UK taxman has no way of knowing what your pay is if you return overseas and he has no way of collecting the cash if you told him.

So a prestigious college education can be yours for little outlay above travel costs if you return from whence you came when you have got your first in Physics. If you get the kind of job that deserves in Spain or France or Germany you are only honour bound to repay and you can choose when to do that at the lowest interest rates known to man.

Regards,

John.


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Lis48

They´ve talked about this for at least the last twenty years. GCSEs, A levels and even Oxbridge degrees have all been "dumbed down" so that a higher percentage of students gain some kind of education as opposed to the elite system we had years ago when 75% left school with almost nothing. The IB is a much more demanding exam than A levels with students needing to pass exams in all six subjects to get the diploma, plus CAS and T of K. These exams are all taken in the same season unlike the modules at A level that you can retake and retake till you pass. So I don´t see how the government can replace the A levels as most students would fail the IB and you would be back to the costs of high unemployment in the 16 to 21 year olds that the government was trying to avoid.

Grazy

Hi All,

I run a bar/restaurant and get a lot of people asking me if the IB gives a child a better education than IGCSE and A level.

If you think that your child is better off doing the IB please be kind enough to tell me more about it?

EsuriJohn

Hi Grazy,

I think it is generally accepted that the IGCSE is more akin to the old "O" & "A" level and would be equivalent to the IB in every way. If you want to go to Cambridge, Oxford, Durham or Imperial then you will need 3 x A's + 1x B in the relevant subjects a distinction? in the IB would be the same. For the redbricks they want 3 x A's or equivalent IB.

Which is best I think depends on the individual and his interests and studying style. I think I would have been better with an IB but who had heard of them in 1962 so three A levels it was but the choice is there today and it makes it more difficult.

Regards,

John.
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Lis48

IGCSE is just the International GCSE and the only difference between that and GCSEs is that the syllabus is not UK based. I´ve taught and marked both and the depth is the same, certainly in my subject.
To get the IB diploma you need to pass everyone of your 6 subjects (three at Higher Level, A level equivalent in depth, and three at Subsidiary level) and the exams must all be taken in the same session. This makes it far more difficult for the average student than A levels and demands a much more all round ability. A scientist for example would need to pass SL exams in his mother tongue, in a foreign language and in a humanity subject as well as his three specialist sciences at Higher Level.
Having marked both IB and A level over the past 22 years, and set questions, I would say that the standard at IB has remained consistent while that of A level has declined considerably. Universities now recognise the lowered standard at A level and 3 A grades is no longer necessary for Oxbridge entrance because they are not an accurate indication of a child´s potential and that is what universities need to know. Indeed many will say that they consider a B achieved at an inner city comp to be worth more than an A from a private school. The school report and the child´s personal report are far more important. Of course Oxford may demand the grades to encourage the student to work, but then accept grades as low as C. My own daughter is an example while her friends with A grades failed to get in.
I don´t think A levels are an indication any more of high intelligence, just of a good hard working teacher with access to all the past papers and a hard working student who is willing to listen and rote learn. The attitude of the student frankly is far more important than his intelligence.
Tirade over. Sorry!

Grazy

Hi All,
I am very impressed by the quality of the posts in this thread!

My son did IGCSE and A level, because he is academic and could study just 4 subjects in depth, but had he been just a little less academic, I would have chosen IB for him as it is a broader syllabus.

He is strong in Maths, Phy and Chem and new that he would take a career in one of these areas, but if your child is not a real specialist IMHO they would benefit more from IB.
I hope that helps somebody!