jimenato

What - to Spain?

There are thousands of Chinese in Spain. As China is not a member of the EU, are you and HBG suggesting that they are all here illegally?

There is either scaremongering or ignorance occurring here

rugbymatt

As opposed to every other single politician since the whole rotten lot of them set about to line their own pockets and those of every single person around them. Stop thinking with the usual staid mindset, none of them are any good, just because some are red, others are yellow and this lot are blue it makes bugger all difference, even the great Man of the People Kinnock spent his time in Europe lining his own pockets and those of his family who he managed to secure in various positions in power.

Like the late great Bil always said, rotten to the core, the whole stinking lot of them.

Domino

WTF is that all about - read the original posts, I am not refering to Spain but UK, I am not refering to Chinese but to other nationalities as per the earlier post.
Please, stop trying to make things up, there is no scaremongering or ignorance there - unless the ignorance is coming from yourself

jimenato

I have read the original posts including the bits you haven't bothered (for whatever reason) to highlight in red.

jojojojojo

I know lots of people who worked and lived in Spain long before the EU was invented. In fact a very good friend of mine arrived in Spain with her family when she was six. They were the only Brits in the village, but apparently there were a few others in the area. Her father started a whole sale builders merchant, ferrateria type place. He died there and my friend eventually moved back to the UK a few years ago. altho she flits between the two countries - she is now 55!

Jo xxx

jimenato

Yes. HBG usually makes a bit more sense than he's making in this thread.

HBG

Perhaps my anger at Cameron's actions coloured my views. Joining the EU when we did gave us the right to live and work anywhere within the EU, as well as other benefits, such as free medical care, bringing our cars over, having certain voting rights; basically, to allow us to live on an equal basis with Spanish people, in their country.

We are 'legal' in Spain, and Spanish people are 'legal' in the UK. Both countries have lots of other immigrants who are not 'legal' because the don't belong to the EU. However each host country deal with them is a matter for the individual country and they often allow a number of illegals for various reasons, and they are often hard to get rid off.

In my view, membership of the EU is beneficial to the UK for many reasons, mostly financial. but the amount of Euro-scepticism in the UK has grown, fostered by right wing Tories

But we are a democracy and if that is the will of the people (to leave the EU), then I'll pack my bags. If I no longer have the legal right to live in Spain, I will need to return to a country where I can legally live.

I'm not looking forward to it.

(I watched a flustered Cameron giving an interview just after flouncing off the stage. He said, among other things, 'We are still in NATO.')

rugbymatt

What the hell are you on about, nothing has changed. Did you not read the Spectator article? The only major thing he has done is protect an industry that puts over £54b into the tax coffers a year and employs 1.7 million people, if that was any other industry other than the financial one you would all be jumping up and down waving your red flags!

jojojojojo

TBH, whichever way you view this, Cameron had a tough decision to make and this whole EU thing isnt just about free movement of people between countries, its about free trade, universal rules and laws. Eventually its the United States of Europe, but that isnt going to happen overnight with different cultures, views, practices, ethics and several countries still using their own currency, the changes will be slow. In anycase, we havent said we're leaving the EU, just that we dont want Brussels running our financial sector - which I personally think was the right decision

The european countries who are using their own currency instead of the euro seem to me to be the only ones who are financially doing just about ok (ish).

Jo xxx

agoreira

He has some weird ideas, all will have to go home, the EU gives us financial benefits, we've effectively already left the EU. It costs us a fortune to be in the club, we've never been in profit in all the years we've been in the club. He talks about the EU providing free health care, they're simply sharing out the money we plough into the scheme, they ain't giving us nothing. Trade? They sell us more than we sell them, they benefit far more than we do. Nobody hates the banker's and their bonuses more than me, but as you say, the financial sector generates huge amounts of money and jobs, and Merkosy know it and want a piece of the action. Around 30,000 young French are working in London, earning great wages, that probably riles little Sarko to see his countrymen deserting France for UK. Spain is exporting thousands of well educated youngsters to many countries, with loads heading for UK as well. They might be slating our stance in their papers in Europe, but they don't seem to have a problem heading for UK and taking well paid jobs, with wages they'd never get in their own countries. I'm no great fan of Dave, but delighted not to see him giving into the Merkosy bullies like the rest have.

HBG

If 26 out of 27 countries agree to a fiscal union and tighter budgetary controls, then the odd one out will be isolated from the rest. That's us.

The 26 will be making decisions that affect us, without us.

This summit wasn't about the City of London, it wasn't even discussed, the news has been spun to disguise the fact that Cameron effectively started the process to get us out of the EU altogether, a right-wing Tory dream.

They might succeed, the media is solidly on their side, and Murdoch's influence is still strong. There's no doubt that a referendum held at this stage would vote us out of Europe.

I won't like it, personally, but I'll go along with the majority and go home.

rugbymatt

Its funny how while all this has happened out trade deficit has shrunk, with exports rising against all the odds and out of the blue.... that must rankle Sarko and in all honesty what else could he do? The irony is that by signing up would have allowed the bankers more freedom, stopping the projected tightening of the financial services sector next year some time.

Whatever peoples colour they have to realise that this Super-Europe with Germany and France controlling the reins is a terrible idea and its mad to think that a closing of the gaps between failing economies will help in any way!

One story I found fascinating is that a top US General is voicing his concerns about the rising dissent in Europe, as I said, "May you live in interesting times."

jojojojojo

You are wrong and you are over reactng! We are not the only ones with our own currency and we are not the only ones who dont want Brussels telling us how to run it! I doubt very much that even if we did leave Europe, there would be a mass exodus of euro and ex euro citizens zig zagging across the world, returning to their countries of birth. Chill!

Jo xxx

rugbymatt

Read the Spectator article mate... go on... its OK, it won't turn you Blue.

evamar

Really, HBG, even if the UK leaves the EU (which I don't think will happen, but yes, it is possible), I cannot see that the free circulation of people will stop. There are other countries with their own currency. Maybe UK will simply stay in the Schengen Agreement.... oh, wait, the UK was also quite particular with that one!

In any case, how can you compare the situation of illegals to that of people coming legally and staying for years (with means of proof, both about lenght of stay and means of living)?

I'm quite surprised, really.


It's not only that British have many euro-sceptics; in your normal language you speak of Europe as if you were not part of it. OK, you're islanders... but still part of Europe. The distant feeling towards Europe is so integrated in your common views that I really cannot understand why did you enter to start with, especially being so opposed to anything regarding Germany, and please don't get into History here, I'm just talking about the EU and Schengen Agreement, so please look from 1973 onwards.

TBH, and getting into gossip here: many EU members have been regretting the entry of the UK, as it's too often seen as an "aloof visitor" playing for the interests of USA, as the UK is by all means the 51st state. Even many see the incorporation of the latest poor members since 2004 as a game to weaken Europe's capability and strength to the benefit of USA.

The UK might not particularly feel close to Europe, but Europe distrusts the UK and it's so called "special relationship" with USA... it might be better to simply be part of the Schengen Agreement with your all well known specialities and leave the EU.