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the end of the euro in Spain

the end of the euro in Spain

Old Dec 10th 2011, 8:28 am
  #76  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by Leper
The EU will be taken over by Germany and France with the likes of Ireland being a federal state with little or no say in anything.
And not just Ireland, all of them except the top two will have very little say in what goes on. Fiscal decisions will all be taken by Merkosy, the other countries will be like puppets, dancing to their tune. And the whole show run by a bunch of self important, unelected, unanswerable to anyone, bunch of eurocrats. You gotta love democracy!
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 8:28 am
  #77  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by Leper
I did not read all the posts in this thread. But, speaking as an Irishman if I had the choice of being aligned to the Euro or the GBP£, I would have no hesitation in opting for the GBP£.

The Euro will survive, but at a price and after a long monetary war. The EU will be taken over by Germany and France with the likes of Ireland being a federal state with little or no say in anything.

The more I think of the situation the more I think Hitler won the war posthumously. Britain is about to stand alone again, but for its "better."
You mean like your Budget being shown to Merkel before it was even seen by the Irish Politicians?
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 8:30 am
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
You mean like your Budget being shown to Merkel before it was even seen by the Irish Politicians?
Or having to vote again until they got the right result!
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 8:35 am
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

The news keeps running the same sequence of when Shortarse appears to walk past Cameroon and blanks him... Oh yeah, then they show the shot of Cameroon sat all on his own.... "So rownry... I'm so rownwry.."

The media is as much to do with the mess we are all in as any other element, they are dictating what we should and shouldn't feel... Himler started this off you know!
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 8:59 am
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

I see that Euro politicians are coming out and blaming everything from their own inability to control their corrupt civil servants to the failure of the Euro on Britain now!

Overpaid Euro politicians spit the dummy


One German twat states that "it was a mistake to allow Britain into the EU", ******* Nazi!
Still, at least Le Monde hit the nail on the head!

"Brits are not part of this euro crisis. And they have no responsibility for the failure of its institutions to resolve this sovereign debt crisis."
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 9:18 am
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Smile Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I see that Euro politicians are coming out and blaming everything from their own inability to control their corrupt civil servants to the failure of the Euro on Britain now!

Overpaid Euro politicians spit the dummy


One German twat states that "it was a mistake to allow Britain into the EU", ******* Nazi!
Still, at least Le Monde hit the nail on the head!

"Brits are not part of this euro crisis. And they have no responsibility for the failure of its institutions to resolve this sovereign debt crisis."
Welcome home Matt good to see you have not mellowed and lost your edge!

Last edited by EsuriJohn; Dec 10th 2011 at 9:22 am.
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 9:18 am
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by agoreira
Brilliant, bring it on, I love being left out in the cold, we´re islanders, we weren´t meant to be in any bl00dy EU club! We´ve survived well on our own for hundreds of years, (plus with the help of our commonwealth cousins when we needed them fighting against our fellow Europeans) do people think we'll suddenly sink into oblivion? I have no illusions about our importance in the world today, but we're still about the sixth biggest trading nation, lots more smaller countries than ours are doing fine on their own.
agree, we spent centuries fighting the Dutch and eventually got them on our side, centuries fighting the Spanish and have at least got them to the same table, we fought the French for centuries but when their hour of need came we were there for them. so when once again Germany comes out spitting the lemming like French decide to shelter under their wing and ignore the UK

Those who we are actually historically and genetically linked to (ie the French) are the first to turn their backs on us, so is it small wonder we lift up the drawbridge to the EU and sit there watching whilst they start attacking themselves.

This is all Plan C from Hitler's future for Europe, and will give Germany the right to tell all (including France) how they will budget, how they will spend, how they will tax, how they will save into the common (German held) pot.

Where is the NoTW when we need them to hack into the Merkozy mobiles and emails and pass the info on to Wikileaks ? ?

Last edited by Domino; Dec 10th 2011 at 9:25 am.
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 9:22 am
  #83  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I see that Euro politicians are coming out and blaming everything from their own inability to control their corrupt civil servants to the failure of the Euro on Britain now!

Overpaid Euro politicians spit the dummy


One German twat states that "it was a mistake to allow Britain into the EU", ******* Nazi!
Still, at least Le Monde hit the nail on the head!

"Brits are not part of this euro crisis. And they have no responsibility for the failure of its institutions to resolve this sovereign debt crisis."
I like the Le Figaro quote,
"No sooner did David Cameron cross the entrance to the council, on the occasion of the 8 December summit, than the sky over the negotiations darkened. He had one aim: to protect British interests."
Fancy that, eh? Wanting to protect his country's interest, whatever next!
And Sarko the Dwarf and the Fraulein aren't?
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 9:31 am
  #84  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by jimenato
But I am still a net contributor as are many Brits in Spain. Why would they want us to go?
Exactly. I really cannot see any reason for all this fear coming from British immigrants, even if the EU breaks, HBG. Our culture is different, yes, but still Westernized. If anything really would happen... there will be several steps, whenever Spain, the UK, France, Germany, etc, etc...

Let's contemplate the possibility of a complete economic breakdown that will last for years and will really make people starve, mix this with an incredibly large foreign population, and this can certainly end up bringing up real hate against foreigners. I think it would go like this.. in any Western country, not only Spain or the UK!

1.- There is a clear first distinction between 2 kinds of foreigners... those who cost money and those who don't. Obviously, all countries in trouble (or not!) will try to get rid of the illegal immigrants first, as even if good people and only working so not creating direct extra cost they are taking jobs and therefore hurting the country; in crisis people take any job, they are not so choosy. And there are plenty of them costing loads of money, especially in the UK. Then keeping an eye on those with short stay visas, unless here for investigation, highly recognized skilled workers or professors or something similar that will be actually be useful for the country. There would definitively be more controls with regards to bringing their families.

2.- Then, if still not enough for natives to recover their jobs and means, they will start looking at the foreigners who never made an effort to integrate in the country... as they themselves created a separation and didn't bother to create links. And this will start with the immigrants whose culture (social, political, religious and justice) is against the native one. This would include people trying to impose the sharia law, female ablations, forced marriages... anything clearly against the native constitutional democratic society. This is the kind of people who simply should not have emigrated, as they never wanted to really integrate and leave behind any customs clearly opposed to the native ones till the point they are actually criminal.. or even simply differences in clothing that separates ethnics and should not have been kept in the new country, as the immigrants are the ones who have to adapt. If for instance their religion says that they actually have to kill people from other religion in order to go to an hypothetic special place in after life, they should have been made to renounce to this before being allowed entry to the country and made sure that they would be educated into the native culture at least to respect the democratic and current views of its society. As soon as some important part of their culture is criminally against the native established one... they should have not been accepted without controls.

Problem here... later generations from these foreigners who are born in the country, but who never integrated because there were not enough integration controls. There are plenty of these in the UK, some in Spain. Many natives from the original background of the country will be in favour of expulsing these natives from non integrated added backgrounds, but this would mean something similar to an internal war. I just see more controls and forced integration into the native Westernized system... separating trouble making people and destroying ghettoes understood as concentration of people of the same foreign background. This is the real problem, not only economic, that will end up breaking the Westernized society in Europe, but the real guilt comes from the own natives who didn't bother to make their own culture the strongest.

3.- Only then, if still in trouble after stopping undeserved benefits and forcing their own people, who were not educated into being productive, by taking the jobs freed from the expulsion of the previous groups, would we get to the next step. People would start looking at those foreigners who came legally, but who even from similar Western backgrounds never made an effort to learn the language, culture and integrate creating links of friendship with natives. This would be the only moment I would worry for many British immigrants in Spain, and cannot see it happening. I could see it happening in the UK, though!

4.- Last, and this would really not happen, all those foreigners who actually made a proper integration and created links. I would start worrying for myself in the UK if they even reach the point 3

But, in 3 and 4 I think that they would simply let the normally retired immigrants go or finish their days in the country and then take over their properties and any wealth, just as they would push away and expulse younger immigrants unless needed because of their skills.

Just being logical contemplating a hypothesis that will never happen!

If getting to the point of actually studying the expulsion of foreigners in the UK... do you think that you would start with people in group 4, or in group 1???
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 9:40 am
  #85  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by Domino
agree, we spent centuries fighting the Dutch and eventually got them on our side, centuries fighting the Spanish and have at least got them to the same table, we fought the French for centuries but when their hour of need came we were there for them. so when once again Germany comes out spitting the lemming like French decide to shelter under their wing and ignore the UK

Those who we are actually historically and genetically linked to (ie the French) are the first to turn their backs on us, so is it small wonder we lift up the drawbridge to the EU and sit there watching whilst they start attacking themselves.

This is all Plan C from Hitler's future for Europe, and will give Germany the right to tell all (including France) how they will budget, how they will spend, how they will tax, how they will save into the common (German held) pot.

Where is the NoTW when we need them to hack into the Merkozy mobiles and emails and pass the info on to Wikileaks ? ?
ONE truly Europe was never to be, you are British, we are Spanish, Germans are Germans.... and we will never really forget History, especially as this varies depending on the sides. We might not have open wars today simply because our values have changed and we all share a Westernized culture, still with plenty of differences, but quite common in the main things, at least nominally.

If we really want to make a strong economic Europe, it means that everybody has to give away many competences that actually secure our differences and protect our individualities. I cannot see Europe being a fully Union of States.

At the moment I just hope that we will be able to recover from this crisis.. how will it affect Europe, we'll see.
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 9:43 am
  #86  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by John & Kath
Welcome home Matt good to see you have not mellowed and lost your edge!
Thanks, I try my hardest.

Originally Posted by agoreira
I like the Le Figaro quote,
"No sooner did David Cameron cross the entrance to the council, on the occasion of the 8 December summit, than the sky over the negotiations darkened. He had one aim: to protect British interests."
Fancy that, eh? Wanting to protect his country's interest, whatever next!
And Sarko the Dwarf and the Fraulein aren't?
Exactly, all this is because the Germans don't want the ECB to step in to sort the mess out, and why don't they want that we ask? Because they feel it would destabilise their own economy... Oh, sorry, is that ANY different to what Cameroon wants?

Like I said, I'm loving this. I personally don't think the Euro will fail ,I also don't thing the UK will be banished to the humility of EU "coventry", what I personally think will happen is that once Shortarse has finished worrying about his up coming General Election and the other Bint has stopped trying to prove something to the world we will all see the Euro stabilise, Europe will change, maybe for the good, and the UK will still torture itself about joining, not joining the Euro..... meanwhile the important stuff, like the Uber Rich evading taxes, governments like Spain operating like some World War 2 spiv selling tights on the black market and money will keep going to money...
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 11:08 am
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

Originally Posted by evamar
ONE truly Europe was never to be, you are British, we are Spanish, Germans are Germans.... and we will never really forget History, especially as this varies depending on the sides. We might not have open wars today simply because our values have changed and we all share a Westernized culture, still with plenty of differences, but quite common in the main things, at least nominally.

If we really want to make a strong economic Europe, it means that everybody has to give away many competences that actually secure our differences and protect our individualities. I cannot see Europe being a fully Union of States.

At the moment I just hope that we will be able to recover from this crisis.. how will it affect Europe, we'll see.
It is like "integration". As I have said elsewhere, integration cannot be forced, it can only come about by a desire by people to live work and play together. It takes centuries to integrate, and even then people will still cling to that small ice floe of history for comfort. (No disrespect intended) Something the Jews are very good at, remembering their history, their founding fathers, and use their rabbi's to pass on the word. They will never truly integrate, and after over 5,700 years unlikely to change now.

The same goes for Europe, by accident a large place occupied by the remnants of many tribes, who at times struggle to maintain their identity and independence. We are slowly integrating, the bringing down of fiscal or physical boundaries are a transitory thing. It takes time.
There have been many crises along the way, wars which we hope we have grown out of (is that why we fight in other areas of the world?), epidemics that have killed many thousands irrespective of borders.
The current difficulties are to some centred around the egos and fears of a small handful of people, frightened of what the history books will say about them. People with no experience of these types of event, who have had no training in what to expect, how to react. Their personal (and national) prejudices are making the decisions, not the good of the nation or the union.

Will the Northern States decide that the Southern States are not doing as they are told, and start a war against them.? Thats what happened in the last Union, that of the USA.
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 12:09 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

I get the impression that people cheering the UK having effectively left Europe are safely back in the UK at this time. But the majority of us on this expat forum are still in Spain. We live with our European neighbours who are not exactly applauding Cameron, they think he's a stuck-up Tory prat who doesn't give a toss about Europe.

At a stroke, the EU can now alter the various laws to send us back home, we won't have any say in this, we are no longer at the table.

As always, it will be the little things that turn the tide. One example is the reciprocal health service agreements. They're not paid by the UK as people think, they are paid by Brussels. There are many other examples, residencias and driving licences among them.

Once we are all safely back in the UK, we can join the others standing on the rainy cliffs of Dover, staring out over the grey sea towards the invisible land on the other side. We can join the chorus saying it's all Hitler's fault.

If the sky lifts a bit we may catch a glimpse of Dunkirk. Why did we ever go back?
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 12:25 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

If UK left the EEC would we be sent back home from Spain etc? only if Germany and France said so Spain would probably get no say in it. Germany and France are and will be running the show untill France is of no use to Germany then they will be told what to do also. Cameron was between a rock and hard place and did what he thought was right. On sky news yesterday when all this was coming out there was a poll on whether we should leave 86% yes 14% no. If it comes to a referendum it will be UK voters that make the decision like currency rates what happens to ex pat will not count.
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Old Dec 10th 2011, 12:32 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: the end of the euro in Spain

All countries in Europe have a bloody History... the winners only tend to remember the loser's worst points of history... the losers can see the winners' black history too. In fairness not one of us should be really and truly proud of their bloody history and economic exploitation of other places... but we can tell ourselves that it happened when human lives were generally "not important", and even now exploit the forced contact made centuries ago.

Our consideration of the value of human life has now changed, although not everybody has done this, which is precisely the problem. As per the WWWs, I cannot really see the 3rd one happening in Europe against Europe... we are different, but not so much. Also tell the young Westernized people of nowadays that they have to fight against another European country... I cannot really see it. Tell them to fight in some parts of Asia or Africa... maybe.

I can see it happening with the Western culture against radical cultures, just as I can see how Western countries are breaking from inside. But it can come from either obvious religious radicalism or hidden economic attacks that can unbalance whole countries.

In Western Europe we all have changed our culture and social behavior to achieve a quite common ground, the main bases are the same in the law of most countries, but this doesn't mean that all people living here have culturally developed to the same degree of acceptance of main differences. This is the real problem, whatever their ethnic, religion or background. Each person should decide whether or not they personally accept the Western culture regarding their interactions with other people, and leave if they don't. In the meanwhile, there will always be social tensions and cultural real collisions with terrible consequences in people lives, such as Sharia law or female ablations.
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