Employing in Spain
 

Good day to you all
I am look to move from the UK my small Technical Call Centre to Spain.
We have about 10 full time and 3 part time staff .
Most of my staff is leaving so we are recruiting new staff in Spain.

Question
What are the Spanish employment laws like?
Employee contributions
Holiday entitlements etc.
Any help would be much appreciated

Thanks Mitch

Re: Employing in Spain
 

HI Mitch,

I have been self emplyed here now for over ten years.There is far to much to mention in one message. But I can tell you that it is expensive to set your company up,expensive to make employment contributions, usually around 250 per person per month, just on social security! and far to many bank holiday, usually religious festivals.
You best bet is to contact a ¨Gestor¨in the area you are moving to. This is somebody that will deal with all of your questions and be able to answer all of the points your are raising.
Good luck

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Hi Mitch
I cannot communicate with you via the PM system until you have clocked up at least 3 postings.
I can give you a little bit of info on this and some suggestions, which of course will be a little biased
rgds
Dom

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Welcome Mitch. As already advised, a local gestor is possibly the best person to approach, when you've decided on a location. You should also find resources fron this site (Invest in Spain) http://www.investinspain.org/icex/cd...9011_0,00.html A couple of other folk who have businesses in Spain, and are very helpful, are Pierre-Alban Waters (a Frenchman twitter @pierrewaters) who runs a "guiripreneur" meetup in Madrid, and Mauricio Sánchez Spitman who runs OjoInternet (Twitter @MSSpitman )

Do you have a certain location in mind? The majority of technical workers in Spain are likely to be found in Barcelona or Madrid, but costs are probably higher there. Plus it may be more difficult there to keep English-speaking workers - you didn't say why most of your staff are leaving. Do you pay below the market average, or is it just difficult work? My guess is that a city like Valencia would be ideal - you should find plenty of people wanting to work for you there, and it's an inexpensive city to live, so you can recruit from Brits willing to live a Med lifestyle. Malaga may also be a good option.
Also, try and contact Brits who work for techie companies in Spain, perhaps Softonic in Barcelona, or the folk working for this Anglo-Spanish startup http://uk.qustodian.com/web/our-team Or try asking the people who work at Moodyo (a Seville based startup) - they are friendly folk.

Another option - try talking to the people at the Web 2.0 recruitment specialists in Spain http://www.wiseri.com/ - especially the founder Marina Zalynzya a Polish entrepreneur who really knows her business. I'm sure she can help with a lot of the stuff regarding employment options (remember the current government is changing a lot in this area).

Lastly - look on LinkedIn - there are various groups eg Business in Spain, Friends of Spain etc., and you can join the appropriate group and ask questions there.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

What nationality are you? Sounds to me like you are setting yourself up for an expensive disaster sadly.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Why do you say that? Sounds like he needs a location where he can find local people (whether Spanish or expat Brits) willing to commit to working for his technical call centre company. If Softonic can do it, why can't he?

Re: Employing in Spain
 

It costs far more to employ people in Spain than the UK and its is far more complicated , Language issues , employees rights , the list against it is endless.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

too many gloom and doom merchants on BE these days.

companies are moving to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, even the UK every day of the week. yes, there are others who are leaving, but all in all the balance is maintained or improving.
many major, international, companies have facilities in Spain, the larger the company the more pull and push they have with local and national authorities.
many entrepreneurs operate succcessful companies servicing local and internationals

if you arent happy with Spain then move somewhere else

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Depending on the expertise needed it might be worth considering the Campo de Gibraltar area - lots of IT and other technical expertise around here.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

True , and the smaller companies like the OP has dont stand a chance...like I said initially.

Many companies are moving somewhere else due to the short sighted crooks in Madrid .

Re: Employing in Spain
 

rotor, your one sided view of spain is generally well known, crooks exist in all countries and cities, not just those in spain. Funny that the biggest crooks appear to be in Brussels, where their annual accounts havent been approved by their auditors yet they still try to stop eu nations from providing enticements to companies who will bring work into areas that desperately need it.

but then thinking positive when it comes to living and working in spain is not something I expect from some in this forum, but their gloom and doom never seems to totally outweigh the brightness and optimism of the remainder

.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

well the new government are committed to changing many things - they've recently announced they're going to simplify the many different forms of contract when employing staff. Which is why I stated it may be a good idea talking to a recruitment place like wiseri.com - they will know the up-to-date stuff, and I'm sure they will be very helpful as they'll be hoping to do business with you if you re-locate to Spain.
Plenty of smaller operations have set up shop and prospered in Spain, such as BcnInternet.com, Rebuzzna Communications or even Wiseri (as mentioned earlier). 100s of language schools, and not a few Irish pubs in Madrid - you don't have to be a big company to start a business in Spain.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

A big player once told me if you want to make a small fortune in Spain you need to turn up with a large one.
The bottom line is if your business is working in the UK leave it there , if it isnt it wont in Spain , as as I said before it is more difficult here .

Im not being a monger of doom , just realistic , but then Ive only had 25 years in commerce :)

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Here's another resource you may find useful if starting up a business in Madrid

http://blog.tetuanvalley.com/about/our-locations

Re: Employing in Spain
 

and we all thought your gloom and doom was based on experience
otro novato
ho hum

i wonder what would happen if everyone took that attitude at the thought of expanding into the EU or specific markets.............

Re: Employing in Spain
 

There are a lot of call centres on the CDS. Most of their OP's are not on contracts. The reason why they run from there is because spanish law is more lenient to the type of call centres they run...ie. boiler room scams.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

A lot of people are get quite a shock when they find out the price of employing people in Spain,and I am not only talking about the national insurance contribution.

Most people seem to think that they can pay minimum wage across the board, not true.

Every job has a job description and a payscale, set by the corresponding convenio, which must be ahered to,and this is a lot more than minimum wage in the UK in a lot of jobs/professions.

A gestor would be needed to give that sort of advice as to contracts and rights of the workers.

Having said that I know quite a few places where the staff are all on the same payrate no matter what their duties are........obviously dodgy goings on....

Depending on the skills needed for the comapany , it could be a bad move.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

I heard that employer costs were about 30% of salary but not sure if it's true.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

and remember that a temp worker is only for 6m but if completes 2 x 6m then becomes permanant

.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

And lets not forget the finiquito on top......................:ohmy:

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Isn't the OP's stated problem that he can't keep staff in the UK? If so, then permie staff is what he's looking for...

Re: Employing in Spain
 

I think you will find what he is trying to say is that he intends to transfer the call centre to Spain and none of the existing staff want to make the move so he will be starting from scratch with employees.

this will mean he needs to take on people who have the language and commercial skills, reducing his options somewhat to ensure he has a seamfree transition from one state to the other. And that is on top of ensuring the mains and broadband links are reliable........

Re: Employing in Spain
 

I think OP can make it work. There are many skilled workers looking for work. Property rental and wages are lower than UK.

I would suggest one problem he may find is UK expats can be unreliable employees.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Good point, this kind of set up is run in this way, the ops, dont have any rights as the contracts were laughable, and pay based on bonuses.

Of course the type of work they got usually reflected those conditions, quick turnover of staff, as basically the only skill required was the ability to speak English.

Staff turnover was huge but it didnt matter as thereare/were hundreds to take their place.

This call centre sounds a lot more specialised and to get the quality of personell the law will have to be adhered to, with all the Is dotted and Ts crossed, Decent contracts and staff made permanent after the trial period.

If not there will be no chance of running it sucessfully.

Big firms usually have access to "subvenciones" and such to set up, but to acess those there is usually hoops to jump through and a lot of jobs will have to be on offer, and of course the usual palms greased to obtain the paperwork and studies before the process starts.

But then again I am taling about a big concern not a PYME.

And once the set up help or grants have been used in the set up, the businees is then subject to even tighter conditions than a business that has gone it alone.

I know of people who have had government help to set up, an now realise that they would have been better without it.

It would have been harder at the beginning, but easier a few years down the line, whereas now the opposite is true.

These businesses are being strangled by the same had that fed them at the beginning.

A one man band or a massive company can benefit greatly from government incentives, but the ones in the middle with 10-50 employees are the ones who are caught "by the balls" in a lot of cases.

They have adhere to conventions and such in the same way as a much larger company, but do not have the resourses of the biggies.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Commercial property is cheaper to lease in the UK than in Spain, in the UK many areas have a free first year on business rates plus a business can often open its doors the same day they get the keys instead of waiting weeks if not months in Spain for architects plans etc to be approved .

Employee`s in Spain cost the employer much more , NI is phenomenally high Spain where as many small business`s are exempt for the first year in the UK, employees in the UK are often entitled to tax credits which can boost wages by over £1000 per month so working is a worthwhile proposition .

The bottom line is the UK promotes and supports small to medium business`s where as Spain obstructs them and now it is really starting to pay the price.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

You probably haven't seen the latest measures, both by the national government, and at local level too (for example Madrid and other communities are exempting businesses from costs over the first year or two of setting on new employees). Additionally there are various grants and aid available for start-up companies, sometimes from regional government, sometimes from incubator schemese like that of Wayra from Telefonica. Which is why the OP (if he is serious) should be talking to informed people in the region he wants to locate, as he could well get financial help and grants if setting up a business.
Interesting that you think tax credits make work worthwhile in the UK. The press here seems to be full of stories stating the reverse is the case - people aren't bothered to work as they know they won't be better off after losing out on housing and unemployment benefit, free dental treatment etc. People are put off the tax credit system as it's so complicated and long-winded - people have been faced with large over-payment bills to pay back, and this has caused a lot of pain. The last bit of evidence (unfortunately) is that the official unemployment rate is growing fast. That's without counting all the economically inactive people- this was 9 million the other year. I think if we need to look at a country that is starting to improve, then the US is (at long last) starting to turn the corner. This is good news for us all, I think.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

on a recent survey I carried out in my home town the cost of rental of similar size shopfronts the cost was 50% higher in the UK

still as its so bad across the board we can all understand why you will not be remaining here

Re: Employing in Spain
 

I was employed by a medium sized UK company to collect info on commercial properties and employment costs , law etc , they decided against coming here as it was not viable.

As for me I have not been a permanent resident in Spain for years , I just visit my property's here when time allows.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Hi Mitch,
The big question is where in Spain...
If we talk about Madrid, Barcelona or Valencia the setup costs would be similar to that of the UK.
Then we have the beautiful South of Spain, I am talking about inland Andalucia, where there is a huge surplus of office space for sale starting from old fincas that can easily be converted to a call centre to a state of the art new built office for companies that ceased to exist in the last 2 or 3 years... Here you can find real bargains at less than half an hour drive from beautiful beaches is cities like Jerez de la Frontera to give you an example.
Salary wise, again inland Andalucia workers earn up to 30% less than their respective colleagues in big cities, that does not apply to public workers of course...

There are plenty of people with experience who have travelled in the UK or are actually travelling in the UK and would relocate for the right job, so the workforce would not be a problem.
Holiday entitlement is 30 days p.a. and contribution depends on the salary. For a tech call centre you should be looking at a minimum contribution of about EUR200 accoding to the relevant "convenio" (call centre operator/data entry).

Marco

Re: Employing in Spain
 

I have worked in several EU countries and owned a number of small business ... several of my colleagues run successful businesses in spain. :getcoat:

Re: Employing in Spain
 

Well done:)

Re: Employing in Spain
 

You might note the ratings of various countries in terms of ease of doing business. The lower the score, the better the business environment.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...first&sort=asc

Spain ranks 45, while the UK ranks 6, the US ranks 4.

But naturally, all of this is pure bollocks. Secretly, Spain is the world #1 in all categories of any kind, and Spain's incredibly business-friendly environment explains the reasons why we have the world's most thriving economy and world's lowest unemployment.

Re: Employing in Spain
 

When looking for property, you may like to look for an ex estate agent property?

A quick search revealed several key ready (in spanish EA lingo = ready to move in and start trading) commercial premises to rent or buy from 60€ per week rent or 250 m2for 250,000€ respectively in SCB. You may find prices a little higher in NCB.