Employing Illegals??
May 22nd 2007, 8:39 am
#1
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,052
Employing Illegals??
Why do people complain about immigrants to Britain working for under the market rate, taking away jobs etc, then happily do the same in Spain??
There are many expats who are legally registered, pay tax etc, trying to earn a living and support families, who are having their livelihood damaged by those who work illegally, demand payment in wads of cash and are often charging much higher prices. I am not talking about the pensioners who do a bit of odd jobbing to supplement their meagre pensions, but those who are running full time businesses. Shop around and do compare prices, especially where property caretaking is concerned. I was surprised to hear how much some of these illegal businesses are charging people who know no better.
There are many expats who are legally registered, pay tax etc, trying to earn a living and support families, who are having their livelihood damaged by those who work illegally, demand payment in wads of cash and are often charging much higher prices. I am not talking about the pensioners who do a bit of odd jobbing to supplement their meagre pensions, but those who are running full time businesses. Shop around and do compare prices, especially where property caretaking is concerned. I was surprised to hear how much some of these illegal businesses are charging people who know no better.
May 22nd 2007, 8:48 am
#2
Structural Surveyor
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Sevilla/Cordoba border
Posts: 1,048
May 22nd 2007, 8:56 am
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,052
Re: Employing Illegals??
LOL....well they are usually cutting each others throats.. not difficult to find a property then ask another agent if they can get it cheaper. I was talking about pool cleaners etc, people working on small margins.
May 22nd 2007, 9:05 am
#4
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Location: lincoln
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Re: Employing Illegals??
Hi,
I think most ppl think its a doggy dog world and a lot earn on the side because they cant afford to make ends meet.
But as for immigrants well done them for working hard and earning a decent living xxxx
I think most ppl think its a doggy dog world and a lot earn on the side because they cant afford to make ends meet.
But as for immigrants well done them for working hard and earning a decent living xxxx
May 22nd 2007, 9:33 am
#5
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Re: Employing Illegals??
I am not talking about a few quid on the side, like a single mum on the social who maybe makes a few quid from Avon or a catalogue, or addressing envelopes, as opposed to the builders who earn good money yet still sign on, some of them. Not the odd bit of undeclared earning to avoid paying tax. I am talking about people who are being paid large sums of money by working illegally doing property maintenance full time and screwing it up for the ones who are registered, give receipts for work done and pay taxes.
As to the immigrants in the UK.. yes they work hard most of them, and people are always keen to find a Polish builder etc. However someone on here did make a point.. they can afford to work for lower rates, as they are here for the short term to amass a lump sum then return home. They may hot bunk, live on the edge. And an honest guy who is trying to pay a mortgage and support his family suffers.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that in Spain some of these illegals are not charging lower prices, but top whack.. more than the legal businesses. Shop around people!!!
As to the immigrants in the UK.. yes they work hard most of them, and people are always keen to find a Polish builder etc. However someone on here did make a point.. they can afford to work for lower rates, as they are here for the short term to amass a lump sum then return home. They may hot bunk, live on the edge. And an honest guy who is trying to pay a mortgage and support his family suffers.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that in Spain some of these illegals are not charging lower prices, but top whack.. more than the legal businesses. Shop around people!!!
May 22nd 2007, 11:17 am
#6
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Joined: Oct 2006
Location: lincoln
Posts: 1,871
Re: Employing Illegals??
I am not talking about a few quid on the side, like a single mum on the social who maybe makes a few quid from Avon or a catalogue, or addressing envelopes, as opposed to the builders who earn good money yet still sign on, some of them. Not the odd bit of undeclared earning to avoid paying tax. I am talking about people who are being paid large sums of money by working illegally doing property maintenance full time and screwing it up for the ones who are registered, give receipts for work done and pay taxes.
As to the immigrants in the UK.. yes they work hard most of them, and people are always keen to find a Polish builder etc. However someone on here did make a point.. they can afford to work for lower rates, as they are here for the short term to amass a lump sum then return home. They may hot bunk, live on the edge. And an honest guy who is trying to pay a mortgage and support his family suffers.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that in Spain some of these illegals are not charging lower prices, but top whack.. more than the legal businesses. Shop around people!!!
As to the immigrants in the UK.. yes they work hard most of them, and people are always keen to find a Polish builder etc. However someone on here did make a point.. they can afford to work for lower rates, as they are here for the short term to amass a lump sum then return home. They may hot bunk, live on the edge. And an honest guy who is trying to pay a mortgage and support his family suffers.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that in Spain some of these illegals are not charging lower prices, but top whack.. more than the legal businesses. Shop around people!!!
I agree! i would if i required work have many quotes and then i would also look in to that persons work and see if they are any good. and legal
May 22nd 2007, 11:30 am
#7
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Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Kent - Gandia - Kent
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Re: Employing Illegals??
I am not talking about a few quid on the side, like a single mum on the social who maybe makes a few quid from Avon or a catalogue, or addressing envelopes, as opposed to the builders who earn good money yet still sign on, some of them. Not the odd bit of undeclared earning to avoid paying tax. I am talking about people who are being paid large sums of money by working illegally doing property maintenance full time and screwing it up for the ones who are registered, give receipts for work done and pay taxes.
As to the immigrants in the UK.. yes they work hard most of them, and people are always keen to find a Polish builder etc. However someone on here did make a point.. they can afford to work for lower rates, as they are here for the short term to amass a lump sum then return home. They may hot bunk, live on the edge. And an honest guy who is trying to pay a mortgage and support his family suffers.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that in Spain some of these illegals are not charging lower prices, but top whack.. more than the legal businesses. Shop around people!!!
As to the immigrants in the UK.. yes they work hard most of them, and people are always keen to find a Polish builder etc. However someone on here did make a point.. they can afford to work for lower rates, as they are here for the short term to amass a lump sum then return home. They may hot bunk, live on the edge. And an honest guy who is trying to pay a mortgage and support his family suffers.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that in Spain some of these illegals are not charging lower prices, but top whack.. more than the legal businesses. Shop around people!!!
May 22nd 2007, 12:28 pm
#8
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,052
Re: Employing Illegals??
Just supporting people who are trying to make a legal honest living offering a well priced reliable service but who are having to compete with the sort of people I have talked about in the post.
May 22nd 2007, 1:04 pm
#9
has got a huge member
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Jerez de la Frontera
Posts: 1,656
Re: Employing Illegals??
Lol.....my profile says LOUNGER not CLEANER. I have a robot that does the job when I am there.
Just supporting people who are trying to make a legal honest living offering a well priced reliable service but who are having to compete with the sort of people I have talked about in the post.
Just supporting people who are trying to make a legal honest living offering a well priced reliable service but who are having to compete with the sort of people I have talked about in the post.
My wife is a fully qualified, fully legal English teacher in Jerez. She charges accordingly. But she has to compete against people who are British (or American) and think that simply because they know how to speak the language they must be able to teach it. Some of them charge 10 euros an hour (or even less) and she often has to justify why she charges a lot more.
Usually any Spaniard who is interested in getting a good solid education (rather than just a bit of speaking practice) is happy to pay the extra.
May 22nd 2007, 1:22 pm
#10
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Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Kent - Gandia - Kent
Posts: 2,002
Re: Employing Illegals??
Lol.....my profile says LOUNGER not CLEANER. I have a robot that does the job when I am there.
Just supporting people who are trying to make a legal honest living offering a well priced reliable service but who are having to compete with the sort of people I have talked about in the post.
Just supporting people who are trying to make a legal honest living offering a well priced reliable service but who are having to compete with the sort of people I have talked about in the post.
well here here and I quite agree with you
Its hard for people to make a living here (harder than a lot of people think) and doing it legally is even harder
Its ok getting various quotes as long as you can compare like for like - so cheapest isnt always best !!!! as you hear all too often, people go with "the bloke in the bars" quote and it turns out to be a BIG mistake. Dont be afraid of asking lots of questions and make sure they are legal and paying their taxes etc ask to see their paperwork to prove it, that should soon scare off the illegals
happy lounging
May 22nd 2007, 3:28 pm
#11
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,052
Re: Employing Illegals??
I didn't want to sound all high and mighty, after all everyone has been guilty of that 'pay me in cash and I won't have to charge you the VAT' deal in the UK. Or the IVA in Spain. But when people are running whole businesses on a 'you have to pay cash' basis, and charging top whack as well, and others are trying to be fair and competitive on a legal basis, then it is unfair.
I was solicited many times by pool cleaners /maintenance people when they heard us speaking English in the local bar. Some of them seemed genuine. I can understand how expats with no Spanish will sometimes latch onto the most convenient person, but as you say, shop around and get comparative prices. You may be amazed at the differences. The legal ones often charge a lot less.
Some serious lounging coming up.. in between the weeding, painting and planting.
I was solicited many times by pool cleaners /maintenance people when they heard us speaking English in the local bar. Some of them seemed genuine. I can understand how expats with no Spanish will sometimes latch onto the most convenient person, but as you say, shop around and get comparative prices. You may be amazed at the differences. The legal ones often charge a lot less.
Some serious lounging coming up.. in between the weeding, painting and planting.
Last edited by poollounger; May 22nd 2007 at 3:38 pm.
May 22nd 2007, 3:30 pm
#12
MODERATOR
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,795
Re: Employing Illegals??
I didn't want to sound all high and mighty, after all everyone has been guilty of that 'pay me in cash and I won't have to charge you the VAT' deal in the UK. Or the IVA in Spain. But when people are running whole businesses on a 'you have to pay cash' basis, and charging top whack as well, and others are trying to be fair and competitive on a legal basis, then it is unfair.
I was solicited many times by pool cleaners /maintenance people when they heard us speaking English in the local bar. Some of them seemed genuine. I can understand how expats with no Spanish will sometime latch onto the most convenient person, but as you say, shop around and get comparative prices. You may be amazd at the differences. The legal ones often charge a lot less.
Some serious lounging coming up.. in between the weeding, painting and planting.
I was solicited many times by pool cleaners /maintenance people when they heard us speaking English in the local bar. Some of them seemed genuine. I can understand how expats with no Spanish will sometime latch onto the most convenient person, but as you say, shop around and get comparative prices. You may be amazd at the differences. The legal ones often charge a lot less.
Some serious lounging coming up.. in between the weeding, painting and planting.
Rosemary
May 22nd 2007, 4:03 pm
#13
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 82
Re: Employing Illegals??
Why do people complain about immigrants to Britain working for under the market rate, taking away jobs etc, then happily do the same in Spain??
There are many expats who are legally registered, pay tax etc, trying to earn a living and support families, who are having their livelihood damaged by those who work illegally, demand payment in wads of cash and are often charging much higher prices. I am not talking about the pensioners who do a bit of odd jobbing to supplement their meagre pensions, but those who are running full time businesses. Shop around and do compare prices, especially where property caretaking is concerned. I was surprised to hear how much some of these illegal businesses are charging people who know no better.
There are many expats who are legally registered, pay tax etc, trying to earn a living and support families, who are having their livelihood damaged by those who work illegally, demand payment in wads of cash and are often charging much higher prices. I am not talking about the pensioners who do a bit of odd jobbing to supplement their meagre pensions, but those who are running full time businesses. Shop around and do compare prices, especially where property caretaking is concerned. I was surprised to hear how much some of these illegal businesses are charging people who know no better.
I have to shell out over 200€ per month just to keep my business legal and in truth, I get very little in return (except for a pension after about a million years....) On top of that I have to pay tax on what I earn so can easily loose 3 or 400€ a month before I've even strated to put anything in my pocket. I'm in a very competitive market place doing what I do and I have no problems with that as long the playing field is level. Some (and of course not all), either charge the same and pay no fees meaning more in their greedy little pockets, or charge less making it impossible for me to compete with them as I seem more expensive.
I understand that everyone is on a budget and begrudge no-one from trying to cut costs, as a second home is big drain on financial resources but remember who you are asking to do what. I wouldn't hand my house keys over to someone whom I can only contact by cellphone and has no registration or comeback. I certainly wouldn't hand my house keys over to someone who I met in a bar/pub. Imagine doing that in the UK !?!?!?!?
I could bore you with 'my neighbour said he would do it for me' horror stories but won't, as I've said my piece and can't afford to upset too many people. Thanks for listening
May 22nd 2007, 5:02 pm
#14
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Posts: 20,156
Re: Employing Illegals??
Now there's someone after my own heart. I could write a whole book on this subject. There aren't many things that get me uptight (and those of you that know me will agree) but this is one of them.
I have to shell out over 200€ per month just to keep my business legal and in truth, I get very little in return (except for a pension after about a million years....) On top of that I have to pay tax on what I earn so can easily loose 3 or 400€ a month before I've even strated to put anything in my pocket. I'm in a very competitive market place doing what I do and I have no problems with that as long the playing field is level. Some (and of course not all), either charge the same and pay no fees meaning more in their greedy little pockets, or charge less making it impossible for me to compete with them as I seem more expensive.
I understand that everyone is on a budget and begrudge no-one from trying to cut costs, as a second home is big drain on financial resources but remember who you are asking to do what. I wouldn't hand my house keys over to someone whom I can only contact by cellphone and has no registration or comeback. I certainly wouldn't hand my house keys over to someone who I met in a bar/pub. Imagine doing that in the UK !?!?!?!?
I could bore you with 'my neighbour said he would do it for me' horror stories but won't, as I've said my piece and can't afford to upset too many people. Thanks for listening
I have to shell out over 200€ per month just to keep my business legal and in truth, I get very little in return (except for a pension after about a million years....) On top of that I have to pay tax on what I earn so can easily loose 3 or 400€ a month before I've even strated to put anything in my pocket. I'm in a very competitive market place doing what I do and I have no problems with that as long the playing field is level. Some (and of course not all), either charge the same and pay no fees meaning more in their greedy little pockets, or charge less making it impossible for me to compete with them as I seem more expensive.
I understand that everyone is on a budget and begrudge no-one from trying to cut costs, as a second home is big drain on financial resources but remember who you are asking to do what. I wouldn't hand my house keys over to someone whom I can only contact by cellphone and has no registration or comeback. I certainly wouldn't hand my house keys over to someone who I met in a bar/pub. Imagine doing that in the UK !?!?!?!?
I could bore you with 'my neighbour said he would do it for me' horror stories but won't, as I've said my piece and can't afford to upset too many people. Thanks for listening
May 22nd 2007, 5:11 pm
#15
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: Employing Illegals??
I have this problem all the time here in the UK, in fact I have even lost work to people who I know as a fact to be working cash in hand, and I' not talking about a hundred quid job, I mean a £5,000 cash job, money in the pocket.
My only problem with the OP is the degree of illegal, if you are not supposed to be working under the table then your not supposed to be working, thats that.
As an analogy drink driving is illegal, even if its just a little drink, its still illegal.
My only problem with the OP is the degree of illegal, if you are not supposed to be working under the table then your not supposed to be working, thats that.
As an analogy drink driving is illegal, even if its just a little drink, its still illegal.