Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Spain
Reload this Page >

Employing family for free

Employing family for free

Old Feb 4th 2015, 7:32 am
  #1  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Pinoso, Alicante
Posts: 56
mariajose is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Employing family for free

Wasnt sure how to title this thread!
My friend and I have purchased a bar in spain and are registered etc etc to begin trading in a few weeks.
. We cannot legally employ family, this we know. however, is there any law against family working for us for free?
anyone got any experience of this they can share please?
mariajose is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 8:17 am
  #2  
Retired and loving it!
 
snikpoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,151
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by mariajose
Wasnt sure how to title this thread!
My friend and I have purchased a bar in spain and are registered etc etc to begin trading in a few weeks.
. We cannot legally employ family, this we know. however, is there any law against family working for us for free?
anyone got any experience of this they can share please?
... of course you can legally employ family members! Why do you think that you can't? Provided they are of age, legally resident etc. what's the issue?
snikpoh is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 8:21 am
  #3  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Pinoso, Alicante
Posts: 56
mariajose is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Employing family for free

our assessor informed us we couldn't employ our husbands. Actually we don't want to employ them, we just want them to help us out for free, that was the issue but he said we couldn't do that either
mariajose is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 8:31 am
  #4  
Concierge
 
mikelincs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,148
mikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by mariajose
our assessor informed us we couldn't employ our husbands. Actually we don't want to employ them, we just want them to help us out for free, that was the issue but he said we couldn't do that either
Then I suspect that a vast majority of Spanish bars are totally illegal
mikelincs is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 10:06 am
  #5  
Retired and loving it!
 
snikpoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,151
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by mikelincs
Then I suspect that a vast majority of Spanish bars are totally illegal
In fact, a vast majority of Spanish businesses are in trouble because of this.

Utter rubbish!

I know of MANY Spanish couple that work together in the same business and many again where the wife and/or husband is 'employed' by the other.
snikpoh is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 10:44 am
  #6  
BE Forum Addict
 
MikeJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
MikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by mariajose
our assessor informed us we couldn't employ our husbands. Actually we don't want to employ them, we just want them to help us out for free, that was the issue but he said we couldn't do that either
Even if you don't pay a wage the fact that your OH can enjoy the fruits (eg bed and board, benefits in kind etc) of the enterprise they work in still counts as 'employment' legally. So if your assessor is right then only singles could run businesses in Spain or it could be a crafty wheeze by your OH to avoid work
I would seek a second opinion (not from BE )
MikeJ is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 12:15 pm
  #7  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Pinoso, Alicante
Posts: 56
mariajose is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Employing family for free

Many conflicting answers out there, the OH would work, doubt he would get any of those benefits! eating profits!! I am trying to get second opinion but was asking in case anyone has had actual experience of this problem
mariajose is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 12:24 pm
  #8  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 396
EllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond reputeEllisG has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

I am guessing from my limited experience of running my own bar some time ago and employing people the answer as to whether you can employ/let help out for nothing the family member depends on the personal circumstances of that family member. If you pay their social security/tax you can employ them (and allow to help out for nothing but in this case would it really be worthwhile ?). The only way they can help you out for nothing would be if they themselves are autonomo and therefore paying their own social security.
EllisG is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 4:07 pm
  #9  
Started off with nothing
 
missile's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,941
missile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

The whole family work in my favourite bar. Grandfather, Grandmother, Father, Mother and Daughter.

I would suggest OP finds another "assessor".

PS: What is an assessor?
missile is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 4:17 pm
  #10  
Retired and loving it!
 
snikpoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,151
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by missile
The whole family work in my favourite bar. Grandfather, Grandmother, Father, Mother and Daughter.

I would suggest OP finds another "assessor".

PS: What is an assessor?
An 'assesor fiscal' is an accountant - is that who they mean I wonder?
snikpoh is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 4:41 pm
  #11  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Pinoso, Alicante
Posts: 56
mariajose is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Employing family for free

yes Assessor is like an accountant. I am going to go to a solicitor and ask I think
mariajose is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2015, 9:24 pm
  #12  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 835
davidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this pointdavidinspain is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Employing family for free

If this is accurate it seems nobody can work for free in Spain.
Sundays in Spain
davidinspain is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2015, 7:39 am
  #13  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 212
avocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud ofavocados has much to be proud of
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by mariajose
Wasnt sure how to title this thread!
My friend and I have purchased a bar in spain and are registered etc etc to begin trading in a few weeks.
. We cannot legally employ family, this we know. however, is there any law against family working for us for free?
anyone got any experience of this they can share please?
Working for free is not allowed as it's considered slave labour which is illegal.
On first visit, inspeccion trabajo(INSS) may tolerate it, but not on subsequent visits.

Your assessor is also correct in that family members cannot be employees (considered fraudulent).

Self-employed/autonomo is the only option for family members.
avocados is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2015, 7:51 am
  #14  
BE Forum Addict
 
Maybe1day's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: (Ex Liguria)
Posts: 1,833
Maybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond reputeMaybe1day has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

We had to pay the contributions for the 2 of us and present a joint tax declaration. The law was changed about 2005 I think, so that helping out for free by husband/wives was made illegal. The places on either side of us were all illegal (Every time they changed hands too), none of them paid anything official for family or other labour. You cannot have free labour because of insurance cover for accidents etc, this is the same in the UK or in any of the Western EU countries. You will also need to take the HACCP courses and certification for handling and administration of food.
Maybe1day is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2015, 8:19 am
  #15  
Retired and loving it!
 
snikpoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,151
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Employing family for free

Originally Posted by avocados
Working for free is not allowed as it's considered slave labour which is illegal.
On first visit, inspeccion trabajo(INSS) may tolerate it, but not on subsequent visits.

Your assessor is also correct in that family members cannot be employees (considered fraudulent).

Self-employed/autonomo is the only option for family members.
Well, there are many firms around here who EMPLOY family members. They have valid contracts of employment and no one seems to bat an eye!
snikpoh is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.