fincasailor

We will be moving into another property at the end of the month and it is connected to the grid, previously we have been completely off-grid.
I know there are some other posts about the same topic but things change quickly in the market so I thought it best to start a new thread.
The property has a solar installation of 2kW and a monthly consumption of around 180Kwh.
I have used the CNMC website to compare the market and I have narrowed the choice down to Octupus or Imagina, they both have tariffs that will result in monthly bills around €30 before taxes. No chance of getting to a zero bill with only 2kW of solar - I might add more once we get there.
Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of the Companies?
Also if anyone has a referral code that would also be useful.

Lynn R

I switched to Imagina very recently, only got my first bill a couple of weeks ago. The switching process went very smoothly, communication from Imagina has been very good and so far it has resulted in the bill remaining the same in spite of the IVA having gone back up to 21% from the reduced rate of 5%. The saving should be greater in the winter months when our consumption always increases substantially as we are in an all electric property and use the aircon for heating.

Fred James

I think it was my previous post a few months ago that recommended Imagina. I am pleased that Lynn is happy with them. I can only reconfirm my satisfaction with them. My “personal” contact has been extremely helpful in my transfer to solar power. They are correctly crediting my over consumption to my “solar wallet” and my bills (excluding the monthly charges) are zero. They very quickly downgraded my potencia when I asked them to do so.

Overall, I am really happy with them. My current 24/7 rate is 0.129 and they credit me with 0.10 per unit sent to the grid.

fincasailor

Thanks for the replies.
The current rates with Imagina are now .116/kWh 24/7 and .08/kWh credit for surplus or .214/kWh 24/7 and 0.15/kWh for surplus - you can choose the pair that is best for you.
Fred - are you saying you always have to pay the fixed Potencia costs regardless of how much credit you earn from your solar surplus?
I notice that Imagina's fixed costs are about 23% higher than Octupus so that is quite a difference if you can't offset it against your surplus. I don't know if Octupus offset the fixed charges, will have to check.
Some companies do offset the fixed charges but many don't - definitely have to check the small print on that point.

Fred James

I must admit, there was a very small gap between the two rates. I looked at the higher buy in rate, but until I have full year of output data its difficult to decide which is more favourable. Also, if you change tarifs you lose any accrued credit so timing is key.I have looked at alternative suppliers, but none seem to make it clear whether they allow credit against the standing charges. Logically, as they are providing the supply infrastructure its not unreasonable for them to want some payment for it.

Ultimately I am not particularly bothered as I am currently generating far more than I can use (my current estimate for the year is about 15000kwh) and bearring in mind that the capital cost was almost 100% covered by the present very generous state subsidies, it all seems like a definite win/win situation.

fincasailor

I think you are running a small power station, Fred, that's about 9kW of panels!! However if you managed to get grants and subsidies for almost 100% of the capital cost then you might as well install as much as you have space for.
Do you have to have your Potencia at a level that matches your possible maximum surplus generation rate? So if you have 9kW of panels you could be feeding over 8kW into the grid at times?

Octupus definitely do offset any surplus against energy consumed AND power charges - this is from their website:
We offset your entire bill (including the contracted power), so you can lower your bill all the way to zero.

They don't pay as much as Imagina for surplus - 0.06/kWh, however standing charges are also lower, but with your output it would still be more than enough to cover the standing charges.

I will get the last couple of invoices from the current owners of the house so I can do a more accurate comparison but I think Octopus are probably a better choice for us at the moment for the consumption and surplus situation we will have.
purse for solar surpluses. Use it to lower your bill to €0 or at least get it as close as possible. We will use your surpluses to offset your bill (including power), and if you have leftovers, you can accumulate them for other bills or share them with whomever you choose.
Octopus Solar Wallet is our virtual purse for solar surpluses. Use it to lower your bill to €0 or at least get it as close as possible. We will use your surpluses to offset your bill (including power), and if you have leftovers, you can accumulate them for other bills or share them with whomever you choose.

Fred James

Yes, it does sound like a power station! We have 19 panels making 9.7kw. Any more and the subsidy is reduced. However, it is a large house and takes a lot of power for heating and Aircon. We have underfloor heating which is rated at 17kw and five A/C units. Of course, we would never have the whole system running at the same time, but to avoid it tripping we have the potencia set at 9.9kw. We might get away with slightly less.

Looking at various solar tariffs, the companies do seem to be reducing the feed in rates dramatically. Endesa has just dropped from 0.10 to 0.06 and Imagina from 0.10 to 0.08. I have queried with Imagina why I am not getting my balance credited against my monthly charge.

Imagina have another rate of 0.15, but that comes with a much higher rate for energy from the grid (about 0.22). Until I have 12 months of data I cannot make a decision to change to that. Also if you change you lose any credit in your wallet so timing is critical.

Either way, I am saving over €2000pa for almost a zero investment and I can look forward to a cool summer and warm winter!

PoloMarco

On my todo list to look into solar in more detail as current plan with electric supply company finishes later this year.

From initial reading looks like the previous subsidies ended 31/12/2023. There maybe more to come in the future from EU.

But there appears to be an IRPF deduction of 40% (Valencia) up to a max €8800 per home per year. Still trying to wrap my head around this whether you can get 40% deduction per year (up to four years) until the installation cost is covered.

Is anyone doing this? Might see what I can find in the 2023 declaration simulator

Fred James

Yes, nationally you can claim up to 60% of the cost against your tax bill (that may be different in individual regions). It is not a tax allowance, it is a direct deduction from your tax bill (assuming that you pay enough tax to cover it). It depends on the degree to which you improve the EPC (Energy Performance Certificate) of the property. You MUST get an EPC before the work starts and another one after it is completed. Depending on the improvement you will get 20%,40% or 60%. If you qualify for the 60% rate, the deductions can apply across up to 3 tax years. If not 60% is just one year. The maximum yearly claim is €3000. There is a guide to it here https://sede.agenciatributaria.gob.e...renovable.html

The other EU subsidies (up to 60%) did end at the end of last year but I understand there is now a new pot of money for 2024. It can take a year or longer to get the money. The tax deduction is claimed directly so effectively you get it 6 months after the end of the year you installed the system.

PoloMarco

Ok good info Thanks. I’ll take a look at that link. It won’t be this year as probably little tax to pay for 2024 but get setup for 2025.

Edit: work to be complete before 1st Jan 2025. I’ll see what happens towards end of year

fincasailor

It is not really a surprise that surplus compensation rates are being reduced, if you look at the Surplus Energy Price (PVPC) on the esios.ree website it has been consistently below 5c /kWh with weekends usually below 1c /kWh , although strangely the rate has been over 8c the last couple of days!!
So the energy companies cannot really afford to pay 10c and above - although some compensate for the higher surplus rates by charging more for the fixed charges and higher rates per kWh for energy you do consume.
I doubt the downward pressure on surplus rates will change any time soon - especially as more and more solar is being installed so the total supply of solar energy is increasing all the time but the demand is not changing at the same rate.

It is a shame that the CNMC price comparison website does not have any facility to include solar generation and surplus rates in the calculations - the standard results are not that helpful if you have a solar installation. It is not too difficult to make a spreadsheet that will calculate the figures with solar included, just a bit more hassle than just scanning a QR code.

Fred, yours is certainly a big installation - you must have almost a mansion!! I guess with that much generation capacity you must have sufficient surplus credit to be able to use your heating / cooling whenever you like - well done. Even with a big heating system and multiple air con units I can't imagine you get anywhere near using all the energy / credits you generate.
I reckon that the most important factor for you in your tariff choice is to have the minimum difference between what you pay them per kWh and what they pay you for surplus. A tariff that also offsets the fixed charge would probably be a benefit - but if you are already saving over €2k per year then you can take a few months to get a more accurate idea of your generation and consumption figures. Be interested to hear what Imagina reply about not offsetting your surplus against the fixed power charges.

Fred James

Not a mansion, just a bit bigger than a town property - large rooms with high ceilings and a lot of windows. I spoke to Imagina today and they assured me that the credit will apply to the whole invoice. So far only May credits have exceeded the energy usage, but I think their billing system couldn't handle it yet. They assure me that the next invoice will cover it. If they do credit it to the whole invoice, my rough calculations suggest a zero bill for the whole year which would be a big win!

fincasailor

Good news that Imagina say they will apply the solar credit to the whole Invoice and even better if you end up paying nothing for the whole year.

Let us know if everything is as they promise when you get your next Invoice.

PoloMarco

Working with the 2023 tax simulator, it seems that you require general income c.35700€ to make full use of the Valencia deduction of 40% with the maximum base 8800€ which leaves 5300€ to pay for. As in no hurry will see if another subsidy becomes available this year.

*with the basic allowances

fincasailor

No doubt many forum members are already aware of it, but there is a very useful web utility that will calculate the expected output of a solar array. You click on the map to input your actual location and then enter the details of your solar installation.

You can find it here: https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/