EHIC Fraud
 

Seems to be a big news story today.

NHS vulnerable to health card fraud, government admits - BBC News

While many of us are aware that some expats misuse their cards in Spain and elsewhere, apparently the cards are being misused or abused on a much broader scale by foreign nationals who come to the UK, sign on for a doctor, obtain a card and then return to their own countries or elsewhere to use the cards for free treatment, which of course has to be paid for by the NHS.

The other factor which deserves mention is that these freeloaders have mostly lived outside the system in their country of origin and made no contributions to the same and as a result cannot obtain an EHIC. there.

Whilst not condoning expats who abuse the system, it can at least be said that most of them will also have made significant contributions to the system at some stage, whereas visitors coming to the UK with the sole intention of obtaining a card for fraudulent use have not.

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Seems a bit of a failure by whoever gives out the EHIC card, and those who give people NHS numbers, as they are needed to get the EHIC card.

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It seems a more positive identification system is required, maybe with the use of passports, though personally I would have no objection to a UK ID card system as operates successfully in most other countries.

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I agree and the same should apply to those on Benefits, how can those not working or contributing expect the UK taxpayer to pay for their overseas holidays.

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:goodpost:

I've always said that there is enough information on people out there, so I don;t see why people object to a National ID card, we already have specific NHS numbers for everyone, so it wouldn't take much to turn that into an ID card. I know that hospitals moved from each hospital having it's own numbering system to using the NHS number at a time when hospitals were amalgamating, and it was found that in some cases two, or more, hospitals were using the same numbering system, so there was a great danger of mixing up records, so everyone changed the the specific NHS nuber which is generated at birth and satays the same throughout life.

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The EHIC should be dependent on providing an NI number, rather than an NHS number.

The NI number should also be on a card, proof of identity as well as evidence of right to work.

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Might be a bit difficult if you are under sixteen.
You only get issued with an NI number when you reach that age.

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As I said, the NHS number is best, allocated at birth, so no problems with age.

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Ah, like the man with the orthopaedic shoe, I stand corrected.

Thanks both.

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No unfortunately NHS numbers are being allocated to people fraudulently ,that's what the report was about.

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I wonder if the situation regarding the Spanish scam involving diverting patients with valid EHICs from state to private hospitals, has improved after they got their wrists slapped by the EU ?
I've not heard it mentioned lately.

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Simple solution we should have a single EU NHS in a single pot giving EVERY EU citizen the same health care wherever they live. If richer countries have to subsidise poorer ones then so be it. It works in the UK for the 4 member nations so why not for the EU and poorer areas in the UK get subsided by richer areas


Private health care should be banned or at least all private health care professionals should be forced to support the EU NHS with a minimum of 50% of facilities, staff and time


All training for medics (doctors and nurses etc.) should be funded by a central fund and all professionals work for the EU NHS with competitive and suitable salaries and if they leave the EU NHS for pastures / riches new within 25 years of qualifying they must refund ALL education fees plus interest

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Lovely sentiment, however, that would presume much more integration between EU-dependent states and non-EU-dependent states. Also presumes there wouldn't be any infighting over who runs the programme and receives the bulk of the money.

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You have to joking surely!

The UK can't afford the NHS now, let alone if it has to prop up failing EU member economies in Eastern Europe.

Personally, I would prefer to see the NHS move towards a pay as you go system with the usual safeguards for seriously needy patients. They should start with changing for cancelled doctors appointments and trivial use of A&E.

You say it works in the UK for 4 nations - then why do so many people in Wales try and get treatment in England.

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Why not have more integration within the EU - who really benefits from this separatism not the people that's for sure


For me a much more integrated EU based on what the people really need which for most will be


1. A job
2. An equal, free and fair education system for all
3. The best health care for all
4. A welfare state that's looks after you when needed
5. A good pension for retirement
6. Housing
7. A few of life's little luxuries


If this means common tax, common banking, an elected EU parliament then yes I would support it


Remember this works (not perfectly) for the 4 state UK (and other countries such as the Netherlands) why not for a 28 state EU. yes there will be compromise and change but it will be for the benefits of all and not for the corrupt greed.


Yes it will take time but we all love our children, we all have the same basic needs and we all s**t the same!!!


3 steps forward and 2 steps back is STILL progress

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Does anyone have an Emoji for "cloud cuckoo land"?

I think it might be interesting if you posted your thoughts in the "Leaving the EU" thread. Would you like me to move them there?

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...don't stop there, extend to charging Fri/Sat night drunks and druggies for treatment, ambulance and police time.

Where do I sign up ?

Personally speaking, I'm quite liking the cut of TaddWCwin's jib !

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Seems like a good idea as I have drifted off thread a bit


Many people in the past would have thought the UK as it is now would have been cloud cuckoo land at some point.


Even more recent a EU "trying" to work together instead of world wars may have seemed a bit cloud cuckoo land to many at the time


Do we really want to continue fighting and follow the mantra of nationalistic pride (which is as bad as religious nutters) keep that for the sports field not life and death.


A new novel idea how about thinking of others a bit more

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Very best of luck persuading the electorate to vote that in.
By the way how are you going to force private health pro's to work for the EU NHS.By gunpoint maybe?
And tell a nurse that if she leaves for whatever reason before 25 years,she will have to refund all education costs.Put that on the recruitment poster and see how many sign up.
You really have not thought this through have you

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Well, there's little evidence of that so far. But maybe an "EU EHIC card" will finally render the utopia they all dream of.

You should be an EU MP. Would fit right in.

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It is not difficult many private companies and govt establishments who put employees through university already have claw back clauses in their contracts where they have to pay back student fees, bursaries etc. if they leave within a specified time after completion of studies or if the dropout


As for private health pro's again this already exists in small way and many private companies have to provide public services in exchange for grants, licences, apprenticeships etc etc


So not that difficult to implement

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

I love idealism. Too bad it doesn't work in practice. But that's its very nature. It's ideal, not real.

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Name one company ,govt establishment that ties you down for 25 years after subsidising your education.

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I just went on to the NHS web site, as this thread reminded me that mine had run out.

It took me a couple of minutes to apply, and all I needed was an address and an NHS number and to confirm I wasnt going to go and live abroad permanently.

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Fred you are both out of order and so much at odds with reality in relation to the cross border issues. Here a lecture. You know nothing and I mean nothing.

In most cross border areas which support Offa's Dyke English GP' are non existent and by default Welsh GP's pick up the slack. It is historic and English GP's do not wish to become involved. So all the way up from the Wye through to North Wales.

Then to Tutshill and Sedbury both in England but with only Welsh GP's and just two minutes from the Welsh Border at Chepstow. If you join Welsh GP's you get Welsh NHS there is no other alternative. I have lived in Chepstow for over 40 years probably more years than your time in Spain. If English people in these villages wish to engage with English GP's then over 20 miles of travel.


Then of course Fred prescriptions in Wales are free so your argument is without substance. Fred you have been away too long. Thousands of English guys register with Welsh GP's so they can save themselves £7.50 per prescription. Fred this is not your territory. On health issues England owes Wales some £40M for of course Fred the traffic is in both directions. Say your young child is ill in Lydney in Gloucester he or she goes to the Children's hospital in Cardiff nowhere else. Then cancer to Whitchurch in Cardiff. Fred with the greatest of respect this is beyond you as is the growing of lillies.

Look at David Davies MP for Monmouthshire and his Cross Border Parliamentary enquiry as to cross border health issues and where I was privileged to give evidence.

Fred your argument is without substance withdraw. Southern Spain knows nothing about domestic NHS in Wales or England.

Fred should I send you the Parliamentary Commons report?

I promise everyone and I hear a sigh of great relief I will not contribute if that is the word with this site any longer. I know nothing in relative terms about Spain but at the same time acknowledge the wise advice of many including Fred.

However Fred you are out of your depth.

Good bye everyone.

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

How do you know that Fred can't grow Lillies ?

I have it on good authority that he's a damned good gardener ! :lol:

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I love free stuff too. Unfortunately, that's also proven to be unsustainable.

By the way, where can I sign up for a free EHIC card?

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Yes, you are right. My pool is too deep to stand in.

Enjoy your trip back to France.

Goodbye.

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Why would you leave just because someone else has a different point of view to yours? What a strange attitiude, if I may say so :-)

I'm not sure the Welsh health system is up to much, my sister has been waiting for an urgent operation for 12 months now. She did attempt to go elsewhere by the way, but her only alternative seemed to be to pay abroad!


Free EHIC's here https://www.ehic.org.uk/Internet/startApplication.do
:lol:

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

I agree not many if any will have a 25 year claw back most have a 5 or 10 year claw back clause depending on skill levels


25 years was a suggestion due to the skill levels and longevity of training it could be 15 years.


The point is it CAN be done as with most things history proves that


How long ago was it EU countries were constantly at war and killing each other for the greed and ego's of kings, politician, lords, priests etc


Or the wars between counties, towns or villages e.g. war of the roses


Yet we all have moved on and live together a lot better and we should strive to improve it to the point where an EU citizen has the same and full rights whether they are in Rome or Paris same as a UK citizen who can freely move between any UK village, town or city etc. and still entitled to the same.
If it takes 100 years then so be it and let it be said it started today


Ideally lets really start and implement it now


May be a dream but WE can make it a REALITY if we stop this greed, silly nationalistic pride and think of others a bit more

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Again, nice sentiment. But come Monday morning, we all have to face the real world.

Actually, in its quest to engineer the perfect society, the failure to recognise how humans actually are has been one of the EU's biggest stumbling blocks.

But as evidenced by its recent behaviours in Greece and elsewhere, I'm confident that all member states now dependent on the EU will be eventually be forced to become dependent siblings of the European republic. And then it won't matter much what people think. And our utopia will finally be fully realised.

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Yes but the Berlin Wall, cold war and the threat of Armagedon stopped wars as well but proved to be not a great idea. There have been more small scale wars in Europe and worldwide since the wall came down .

Re: EHIC Fraud
 

Let's get back on topic please.

This thread is about EHIC fraud, not the pros and cons of the EU. If you wish to discuss that there is already a thread about leaving the EU.

Any further posts about the EU rather than the EHIC will either be deleted or moved.