DLC

You can use your UK licence in the UK until it expires. You cannot renew it if resident abroad.

You can use your UK licence in a foreign country according to their rules - so in Spain's case if you're there as a tourist you're allowed up to six months (yes, in spite of you only being able to visit a maximum of 90 days, but that's what the rules say) and if you're there as a resident you're allowed to use it within the first six months of residency.

If you pass a test in Spain or there's ever an exchange agreement between the UK and Spain and you exchange, you have to give up your UK licence.

Bomber Harris

What a complete and utter load of twaddle.
There is no requirement in law for a UK licence holder to be resident in the UK. The requirement is only a resident of the UK can apply for a UK licence, be that first licence, renewal, or replacement.
It's residents from other EU member states not of, ergo a French citizen who becomes resident in Portugal. That French licence is valid in every EU member state until it expires no matter where the holder lives.
The only part of what you have written that is correct is that a UK licence holder has a legal obligation to notify DVLA of a change of address. However the courts cannot convict a UK licence holder who moves abroad for failing to notify a change of address because the DVLA system cannot record foreign addresses. Where a statutory body (DVLA) is obligated to record information but can't a person is prevented from complying with the law so can't be convicted of something they can't do.
Nowhere in the various Road Traffic Acts, or the Motor Vehicle (Driving Licence) Regulations, does it say a person has to be a UK resident for a UK licence to be valid, nor do either say a UK licence ceases to be valid if it doesn't have the correct address on it. The legislation says a person must be a UK resident to apply for a UK licence which is completely different from they must be a UK resident to hold one.
The only times a UK licence becomes invalid are;
The holder has been disqualified by a UK court.
DVLA have decided the holder is medically unfit to drive.
The licence has been obtained by making a false declaration to obtain it (e.g. claiming to be a UK resident when not).
When it has been exchanged for another licence (e.g. a foreign licence because you've taken up residence abroad).

Red Eric

Oh, good.

I'm glad somebody can read and understand what was written

Mark604

Does the UK still hold with Directive 2006/126/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 December 2006 on driving licences? I think so, no?

If you (as a UK licence holder) are a resident in Spain, you have to exchange for a Spanish licence. Yes?
But -
"It is not an offence to hold more than one driving licence but the Directive does not allow drivers to hold more than one licence - 5 (a) No person may hold more than one driving licence;"

Offence or not, so you can't hold two licences. Yes?
It seems if you don't get a Spanish licence because you don't drive, your UK one remains valid. But as soon as you do, one or the other is invalid because you can't have two.

Mark604

"It's residents from other EU member states not of, ergo a French citizen who becomes resident in Portugal. That French licence is valid in every EU member state until it expires no matter where the holder lives."
Yes, you are right. I'm wrong in that.
(Bold lettering not mine but as the quote uses)
"Your European driving licence will be valid in Spain as long as it is current. Any exchange of your valid EU licence is therefore entirely voluntary. Exchange means we replace the driving licence you used to hold with an equivalent Spanish driving licence.
If your European licence expires, you must renew it in order to continue driving. This renewal involves exchanging your licence for a Spanish one."

https://administracion.gob.es/pag_Ho...ocimiento.html

UKMS

A very interesting thread and lots of posts from forum legal experts.

My question to anyone who is a resident outside of the UK and holds a license in their country of residence is why do you need to retain your UK licence ? It’s all well and good having the bit of plastic in your wallet but other than sentimental value or potentially for ID what use is it ? In most circumstances to drive a car in the UK you would need insurance and ‘most’ insurers would require you to be UK resident if you have a UK licence, likewise hire companies. I say ‘most’ as I’m sure someone will come up with a great example of one that doesn’t

Bomber Harris

If you want to drive, yes.

EU Directives apply to EU member states, not individuals. Each EUMS must write their national law to comply with EU Directives. Now whilst the EU Directive at Article 7.5a is as you have quoted, the Spanish national law reads slightly differently in that it specifies only EU/EEA licences;
Ninguna persona podrá ser titular de más de un permiso o de una licencia de conducción expedido por un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o por un Estado parte del Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo.
En el supuesto de que alguna persona esté en posesión de más de un permiso de conducción, le será retirado el que proceda en función de las circunstancias concurrentes, para su anulación, si está expedido en España, o para su remisión a las autoridades del Estado que lo hubiera expedido.
So SP law doesn't prevent someone form holding both a Spanish and a third country (non EU/EEA) licence. BUT further on in the SP law at Article 20 you'll find that you have to submit that third country licence to SP if you want to exchange it (assuming it is an exchangeable licence) and SP will return it to the relevant issuing authority.
If that 3rd country licence isn't an exchangeable licence (current situation with UK licences) then Article 21.2c comes into play, it's only valid for 6 months from becoming a resident of SP. So whilst it may have the look and feel of a driving licence it is just plastic waste in SP.

​​​​​​​The UK one has no validity in SP once a person has been resident in SP for 6 months whether they drive or not.

Going through the SP law on driving licences again I discovered something that I had missed with regards to Loco's exchange of his "lost" UK licence for a SP licence and it's subsequent reappearance. I had pointed out that his failure to return his found UK licence was an offence under UK law, it transpires that it is also an offence in SP under Article 17 of the SP law.

Artículo 17. Sustitución del permiso en caso de sustracción, extravío o deterioro del original por el correspondiente español.

1. En caso de sustracción, extravío o deterioro del original, el titular de un permiso de conducción expedido en uno de estos Estados que tenga su residencia normal en España, podrá solicitar la expedición de un duplicado en cualquier Jefatura Provincial de Tráfico, que lo otorgará sobre la base de la información que, en su caso, conste en el Registro de conductores e infractores, completada o suplida, de ser necesario, con un certificado de las autoridades competentes del Estado que haya expedido aquél.

Cuando la causa sea el deterioro del original, el permiso sustituido será retirado por la Jefatura Provincial de Tráfico y remitido a las autoridades competentes del Estado que lo hubiera expedido a través de la oficina diplomática o consular.

A la solicitud de duplicado se acompañarán los documentos que se indican en el anexo III.

2. El titular de un permiso de conducción al que se le hubiera expedido duplicado por sustracción o extravío deberá devolver el original de éste, cuando lo encuentre, a la Jefatura Provincial de Tráfico que hubiere expedido el duplicado, la cual procederá a devolverlo a las autoridades competentes del Estado que lo haya expedido, a través de la oficina diplomática o consular, indicando los motivos por los que se ha sustituido.

Mark604

Cleared that up then. Thanks.

Red Eric

Back in the good old days, when the UK was a member of the EU, the question would probably have best been put the other way round - ie as your driving licence is fully recognised and legal in your new country of residence, why bother exchanging it until you have to?

Doing whatever was required (nothing in some member states, registering with the licensing authority in the case of others) was simpler, quicker, cheaper (although the costs of either are negligible in the grand scheme of things) and less prone to unforeseen consequences than exchanging.

It's the whole point of having mutual recognition, facilitation of free movement etc and all the attendant community legislation that goes with it to reduce the bureaucratic burden on the individual.

Much of it by the by now, of course, for UK driving licence holders but the original intervention of mine on the topic and the example I gave was from the slightly different angle of contesting confident assertions that not notifying DVLA of a move abroad and / or not handing your UK licence back to them was an offence. It wasn't then and it still isn't now.

Stingychips

That Mr bean licence is brilliant

UKMS

very interesting but you didn’t answer my question 😂

Rosemary

This weeeks update from the Embassy

*Driving Licence Negotiation Update*
A brief message to keep you up to date with the driving licence negotiations. We know that progress is slower than both you and we would like, and that is frustrating. We are still working through the final technicalities with the Spanish Government and hope to have a more substantive update next week.
We are very aware of the difficulties that this is causing some of you and that the expected heatwave this coming week could be particularly challenging. Resolving this remains our top priority and we will continue to update you on this channel

Ronnyone

Isnt this verbatim with respect with last bulletin? In other words: absolutely nothing has happened and things are exactly the same as they have been for months!!!

VEDShappy

Honestly, are you surprised?

DLC

And as the Tory party is having yet another collective nervous breakdown and the work of government has ground to a halt, it's doubtful that a deal will be done any time soon.