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Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Old Apr 6th 2013, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by jimenato
I was told on Wednesday, by my gestor, who got it from hacienda, that it is the current valuation (at 31/12/2012).

That is the value that they are declaring for their clients.

This whole thing is pants.
Well that's what I've heard from a gestor....but I'm not sure whether that's what they're saying to get business from declaration fees.
Let's hope the submission to the EU from the Mallorca lawyer comes to something!!
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Old Apr 6th 2013, 1:55 pm
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by jimenato
I was told on Wednesday, by my gestor, who got it from hacienda, that it is the current valuation (at 31/12/2012).

That is the value that they are declaring for their clients.

This whole thing is pants.
They are wrong.

It is 100% clear from the Hacienda guidance on how to fill in the form that it is the date of acquisition.

Also the relevant law states the following:-

2. La declaración informativa contendrá los siguientes datos:

a) Identificación del inmueble con especificación, sucinta, de su tipología, según se determine en la correspondiente orden ministerial.

b) Situación del inmueble: país o territorio en que se encuentre situado, localidad, calle y número.

c) Fecha de adquisición.

d) Valor de adquisición.

http://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php...E-A-2012-14452

Articulo 54 bis 2.


These so called "professionals" are idiots and what's worse is that they are getting paid to submit the wrong information.
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Old Apr 6th 2013, 2:09 pm
  #753  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by Fred James
They are wrong.

It is 100% clear from the Hacienda guidance on how to fill in the form that it is the date of acquisition.

Also the relevant law states the following:-

2. La declaración informativa contendrá los siguientes datos:

a) Identificación del inmueble con especificación, sucinta, de su tipología, según se determine en la correspondiente orden ministerial.

b) Situación del inmueble: país o territorio en que se encuentre situado, localidad, calle y número.

c) Fecha de adquisición.

d) Valor de adquisición.

http://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php...E-A-2012-14452

Articulo 54 bis 2.


These so called "professionals" are idiots and what's worse is that they are getting paid to submit the wrong information.

Well Fred....that's pretty definitive.....thanks for that.....not listening to any other wild claims on this one!!
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Old Apr 6th 2013, 2:22 pm
  #754  
 
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by jimenato
You don't actually have to buy an annuity any more but I would assume that it should be treated in the same way for this asset declaration fiasco.
So if you don't have to buy an annuity where does the income come from?
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Old Apr 6th 2013, 2:51 pm
  #755  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by Fred James
So if you don't have to buy an annuity where does the income come from?
You draw it down, subject to a limit. It was supposed to be limited to the amount you could generate from a standard annuity, but with 15 year gilts so low, this has been changed this year to 120%, after a lot of protests from the pensioner lobbys
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Old Apr 6th 2013, 3:05 pm
  #756  
 
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

OK - I've got one of those but of course you can't claim the reduced tax rate that you would get if it was an annuity.
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 9:35 am
  #757  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Which is so stupid isnt it!
I agree as it means that you will now have to declare it again next year as its 'current' value will be more than 20% higher than when you first declared it. Also, they now have a base figure for any capital gains tax in the future. Do we also have to put the original purchase price of shares?
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 9:43 am
  #758  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by pacojones222
I had intended to sell 1 property in the UK before the end of the tax year ie April, and then sell another in May or June, that way the CGT allowance could have been claimed on both properties as sales were in 2 different tax years.

Now as I have no intention of selling the 2 properties in the same tax year, by Spains rekoning (Jan to Dec) I will wait untill the start of 2014 when I will no longer be a tax resident here.

Then the other property can be sold after April 5.
I can see a lot of expats with property in the UK deciding to go back ( at least for 7 month in a calendar year) in order to sell property. As many expats who still own property in the UK probably lived in them before they came out to Spain and then rented them out, this means that when selling, there are generous PPR and letting reliefs which, together with the £ 10,900 capital gains tax free allowance ( twice that for a couple of joint owners) would probably mean a £ 100,000 gain not being taxed at all. However, as a Spanish tax resident, i presume that almost the whole of the gain would be taxed at the Spanish CGT rate.
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by mikeglover
I agree as it means that you will now have to declare it again next year as its 'current' value will be more than 20% higher than when you first declared it. Also, they now have a base figure for any capital gains tax in the future. Do we also have to put the original purchase price of shares?
Have a look at post 744. There is no way of valuing the property so you will not have to declare it again until you sell it.

With the exception of property, all assets are valued as at 31 December 2012.
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 1:13 pm
  #760  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

I have been in IT for most of my working life and if the IT dept. had this sort of info. that has been supplied by the Hacienda, it would have taken many years to iron out what is actually required. Then to supply a system to be put in place that also had any chance of working correctly, who knows how long that would take, if it could work at all!!
However a few months for all of us to deliver what they want, thanks, we are all geniuses!
All the emphasis is put on the expats of all nationalities, with all the penalties involved for not complying with their instructions.
An absolute disgrace! (in my opinion)
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 1:49 pm
  #761  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by losviv
I have been in IT for most of my working life and if the IT dept. had this sort of info. that has been supplied by the Hacienda, it would have taken many years to iron out what is actually required. Then to supply a system to be put in place that also had any chance of working correctly, who knows how long that would take, if it could work at all!!
However a few months for all of us to deliver what they want, thanks, we are all geniuses!
All the emphasis is put on the expats of all nationalities, with all the penalties involved for not complying with their instructions.
An absolute disgrace! (in my opinion)
Please remember that it's NOTHING to do with expats alone!
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 1:58 pm
  #762  
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by snikpoh
Please remember that it's NOTHING to do with expats alone!
No .... but I bet if you were able to take a percentage of Spanish nationals that had substantial assets abroad against Expats of all nationalities that had assets abroad, you would see an interesting ratio
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 2:22 pm
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
No .... but I bet if you were able to take a percentage of Spanish nationals that had substantial assets abroad against Expats of all nationalities that had assets abroad, you would see an interesting ratio
About 1,000 to 1(?), conservative estimate.
I cannot think of many Spanish investing in a foreign annuity scheme!
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 2:27 pm
  #764  
 
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

Originally Posted by losviv
I have been in IT for most of my working life and if the IT dept. had this sort of info. that has been supplied by the Hacienda, it would have taken many years to iron out what is actually required. Then to supply a system to be put in place that also had any chance of working correctly, who knows how long that would take, if it could work at all!!
However a few months for all of us to deliver what they want, thanks, we are all geniuses!
All the emphasis is put on the expats of all nationalities, with all the penalties involved for not complying with their instructions.
An absolute disgrace! (in my opinion)
From an IT point of view the system has been well thought out and documented and from a user point of view works really well.

If there are problems with it they are not IT problems, they are problems with understanding how overseas assets are identified and understanding other countries pension schemes.

The actual definition of the Form 720 from an IT point of view is all here (all 28 pages of it):-

http://www.agenciatributaria.es/stat...modelo_720.pdf
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Old Apr 7th 2013, 2:37 pm
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Default Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda

As far as I recall they specced it, consulted for a month, and then built it in about two months. That is impressive, if it works well.
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