Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

The other day I asked my Nursery not to give my child hard boiled sweets especially whilst running and playing in the playground (which I had seen at that moment). Shes only 3 years old.

As a parent I have that right to say what she can eat and not.

The next day i was asked to leave the nursery! That was fine with me and said i will take her right now...and think that the headmistress was a little taken back that I was willing to do it. I do work but my daughter comes first regardless.

After quite a heated discussion, she backed down and it was kind of sorted out although, Im not 100% happy. I keep remembering the things she said and make an excuse that it was the translation.

The culture is different and although I dont want to change it - if I see something that I dont like or think is very dangerous then I have to say something. Especially when its your children.

Has anyone else come across things like this and do you really think we can ever integrate?

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

See the bullfighting thread!

No, it'll be difficult if not impossible for some to integrate completely. I know I couldn't - as much as I'd like to; and when I eventually move to Portugal there'll be some things that I'll never be able to accept 100%. However, I guess all that has to be taken into serious consideration prior to making the move and to keep your expectations realistic.

In my opinion you were right to stop something that you thought could potentially cause harm to your child.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Hi,
Yes i have with my 5 year old however the person who did not agree on a certain aspect was a british woman who said that my child will never fit in if i do not let her learn what others do.
However as the mother i have a right to decide what is best for my child.
It was to do with religion and did i want my child to learn islam, christianity etc etc etc and i choose on the form for my child to not to take part.

Not because i do not want her to do things but because my child is 5 and i think religion is hard enough for anyone to take on let alone my 5 year old.
i choosed not to have my child baptised to any religion as a baby as i feel when she is older she can choose to learn what ever she wants but until that time it is my choice.
And that did not go down to well.

So yes i feel as a parent until that child is able to know what he/she wants you have the right to decide what is best even if that upsets others xxxx

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

my girls don't study religion at school - if they taught all religions I would be happy...but at our school they only teach catholicism.....so we opted out

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Reminds me of the arguments made by Muslim parents at the English school I ran. Of course you have the right to decide what´s best for your child but I can also see that any child that stands out as different is the one who will get bullied. Personally I think that if you choose to educate your child within another educational system you have to accept that some things you won´t agree with or the friction you create damages the child you are trying to protect.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

For me, I live in Spain which is a Catholic Country so if and when my daughter goes to school where they start teaching religion then, I feel that I should respect that.

Same as if I lived in an Islamic Country, then she would be taught Islam, or if I lived in Israel then she would be taught Judaism. I choose to live here in. If I said I dont want her learning that then I am no different to the foreigners living in the UK saying I dont want my child to learn about Christianity or learning about Christmas.

However, I personally would prefer my child to be a child and just accept every child as a child rather than what colour, race or religion they are.

I think the religion thing could go on forever, as its a strong issue. I really wanted to know if anyone else came accross actual cutural things, like my friends had a problem as the teachers at her school forced the kids to eat.

I feel that if I cannot accept these things, then I will have no option than to place my child into an International School which isnt the route I particularly wanted to do, however, I also dont want to turn Spain into the UK.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

I have worked in schools in spain, in international and bilingual schools and the cultural differences you talk about are common place.

Particularly with children being fed, or almost force fed by well meaning Spanish members of staff. I have seen younger children have yoghurt thrust into their mouths when they were distressed and showing no desire to eat. Even though parents had expressed a preference that their child not be fed in this way it used to continue. Well meaning Spanish dinner ladies could not resist the urge to 'mother' children that should have been encouraged to eat independently.

I would have been concerned about the boiled sweet issue. It's simply not safe. But then again I have also worked in school where Santa gave every child a christmas gift, a cheap made in china thing, which broke after five minutes leaving a dangerous metal spike sticking out the centre of it! In a class of four year olds! These gifts were bought by an unthinking adminstration. Needless to say I hastily took the toys away and promised to return them later to avoid mass hysteria!

When you are in charge of children you have to be almost obsessively careful. I often felt there was a more relaxed attitude in the schools I have worked in here.

I have worked in playgrounds with playground equipment I have considered dangerous but have had to put up with it, suggestions made by myself and other members of staff being brushed aside by the administration.

Obviously not all schools are lax, these were all private schools, international schools with a mixture of Spanish and expats on the staff. But I think these cultural differences will always persist.

Maybe I was considered to be paranoid and over cautious! But I dont think you can ever be too careful when other peoples children are in your charge.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

A lot of parents opt out of religion......not just us foreigners, a lot of the spanish too - it is something that we (AMPA - the parents association) are discussing with the school. Many parents feel that in this day & age our children should learn about all religions in the school environment, unless we opt to send them to a 'religion-based' school.

They used to try to force the kids to eat at our school - now they 'encourage' them to at least try it, but they don't force them any more. An issue we still have is that they won't allow packed lunches........though we are working on that one;). At one time they wouldn't provide vegetarian options, but now they do.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

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Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Maybe I was considered to be paranoid and over cautious! But I dont think you can ever be too careful when other peoples children are in your charge.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree, when taking care of your child or other peoples you cannot be too cautious. Prevention is better than cure.

Dont know whether im pleased to hear that it also happens in the private international schools too? I suppose if its Spanish people working there then of course their way is their way.

I just cant beleive that they do not see what i see. I saw kids about 2 years old with sweets being pushed into the mouth then running around.

Im pleased you agree and that Im not being over protective.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

There is a guarderia here that also does kids parties. I was horrified to see that the little ones that were being looked after were strapped into their buggies to sleep, and also when there was a private party going on!
Some of the Spanish mothers who had taken their children to the same party didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with it!
Also, they tried to make the 'party children' eat everything on their plates until one of the (spanish) mums stepped in and objected.

I know this is nothing like bullfighting - but the same applies..just because it has always been done that way doesn't mean it is right!

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

We have had the same sort of problem our little boy is five he had started coming home with bruises and then started trying to avoid school in the way children do and then he did start complaining about one boy hitting him and picking on him we tried talking to the teacher about it with proved unsuccessful. then one day the canteen ladies noticed their was a problem and separated them at lunch this cured him complaining to us that his stomach hurt. He still comes home with more than his fair share of bruises but we have recently made friends with a french couple that have a friend of our son in the same class . Their son has the same problems and is complaining about the same things so from a distance we are watching to see how the french deal with bullying. Because if i got my way i would trottle the bully in question, but he probably has home problems.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

They do tend to distinguish between 'fighting' and 'bullying' more than in England. My older dd was 'picked on' on her first day in Spanish school.........name calling & a bit of a chase in the playground by two twins known as 'the bullies'. We talked to the school & they told us they would sort it but dd said she'd rather do it herself.

So we taught her some choice words:o (not too bad) & told her to stamp on their feet if it got physical! This went totally against the grain, but it worked. She stood up to them & has never been picked on again.

We now understand that one of the twins, now 12, has a mental age of about 6, and he obviously has some problems...his brother is really just trying to protect him, just goes too far sometimes.

Another incident..this time not involving my kids.

An english boy went home with his two front teeth knocked out........his baby teeth.........so not a huge problem..........

The mum went to the school yelling about 'bullying by those rough spanish kids'. It turned out that both boys were in fact english....and they had been fighting and come off pretty much evenly, and they had both been punished.

I really do think that in england a lot of normal kids' rough & tumble & fighting is put down as bullying - I'm not saying real bullying doesn't happen...and I'm not trying to minimise what is happening to your son Ka Ora, or that he isn't being bullied.....I know it does happen.........I just think that we need to be careful and make a distinction.

Also. is your Spanish good enough to speak directly to the parents of the child hitting yours (I am assuming he is spanish)...all the spanish parents I know are very strict & would come down very hard on their child if they knew they were hitting another.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

My youngest daughter was bullied boy the same very large boy for four years at junior school, she put up with this for the whole four years she was there. On her last day at the school she threw the boy up against the wall on gave him a good right hander when she turned round the teacher was standing there he started to complain to the teacher but she said she had not seen what happened so she could not really do anything about it. She gave Michelle a bug hug later and said well done to her. The sad thing is for my daughter she was bullied the whole time she was at school, well up until she was 15 and there was major incident at her school and then after that the situation improved slightly for her. I can't be doing with any one that bullies I just don't want to know them and I would never include them as my friends.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

The funny thing is at first we thought some of it may be an over active imagination and all of that sort of thing but not so long ago we dropped him of at school and because he was a little early he had to go into the assembly hall with all the other early birds we were sat in the car watching as he has often said he does not like going in the assembly hall and low and behold the bully runs up to him and clouted him around the head with a large toy at this point we both got out the car walked back into the school and approached the people that look after the children at break times none had witnessed it. But the fact that we had highlighted it meant it had been done since then things have improved.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

"Dont know whether im pleased to hear that it also happens in the private international schools too? I suppose if its Spanish people working there then of course their way is their way.

I just cant beleive that they do not see what i see. I saw kids about 2 years old with sweets being pushed into the mouth then running, dont they see what I see"

Well Joanne, you wouldnt believe what can go on in international schools.
paying through the nose for your childs education is absolutely no guarantee at all.

I would say keep on being vigilant and express your views when you feel something is wrong. If an administration is as reactionary as the one you had to deal with, ie if you dont like it take your child and go, then I would keep an eye on things. If the head of a school reacts in such an uncaring inflexible manner what does it say about her people skills and the ethos of her school.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Lost in Spain,

I know, you are right, and today I have had a tough day thinking what to do. Im not 100% happy but my daughter is happy there at the moment and need to make sure what i do is for the right reasons. And that I make a decission when calm.

Dont suppose you know of any good schools in the Marbella area, where I wouldnt have such problems?

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

When i was a young lad of about 7 ish , i nearly choked to death on a boiled sweet :( I was just walking and laughed and it sort of was half swallowed !! I was with my Mum at the time and i couldnt speak and she was asking whats wrong ! I started to panic and pointed at my throat , She started bashing me back trying to jolt it i guess , i was struggling to get air and i still remember to this day the Fear as i thought i was Going to snuff it !!

She then literally tipped me upside down and whacked me again this then dislodged it and i could breath again :) She says that i was changing colour :ohmy: And she was worried ..

Never allowed them again , and i got a clip round the ear for worrying her :confused: Amazing right , i nearly die and then whacked as well :(

You know from that day on when i see a kid with them Gobstoppers and stuff playing i always remember back and know how dangerous it is ..
So i agree giving the kids them whilst playing is asking for trouble ..

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Im stressed just reading your story.

Sweets are just such a big thing here...example 3 kings day when sweets are thrown at you. Some people just dont seem to think anything of it.. I remember my little girl being about 1 year old and someone actually gave her one in the wrapper....I couldnt beleive it. Theres no asking the parents first!

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

[QUOTE=Big Pete;4790683]When i was a young lad of about 7 ish , i nearly choked to death on a boiled sweet :( I was just walking and laughed and it sort of was half swallowed !! I was with my Mum at the time and i couldnt speak and she was asking whats wrong ! I started to panic and pointed at my throat , She started bashing me back trying to jolt it i guess , i was struggling to get air and i still remember to this day the Fear as i thought i was Going to snuff it !!

Exactly the same thing happened to me at about that age too Pete! I had a sweet and was laying down, my Mum said "sit up while you are eating that or you will choke"! Of course I knew much better than my Mum didn't I? I think I must have been about 8 or 9. "I said no I wont"! :sneaky:Yes I did! :ohmy: My Mum couldn't dislodge it, and my Dad picked me up and tipped me upside down and finally the sweet flew out!
So J0197, you are quite right to point out to the school something you feel is potentially dangerous. Good for you, and I hope you can either resolve this issue with the school, or find another which is more sympathetic in respecting your instructions in relation to your child's safety. Good luck to you, I hope you are able to resolve this problem! :blink:

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

I understand peoples' fears about the boiled sweets - but what's wrong with children sleeping in their buggies? :confused: My son used to do it all the time!

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

having a nap in a buggy is one thing..........but strapping them in so that the play area can be used for a private party is somehing else altogether!

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

I will not buy boiled sweets and my eldest boy is now 10. They are dangerous. But things are so different in this country. On the one hand I am pleased that I am not getting called by the school to say that one of my three children has fallen over etc and needs a plaster and could I come to the school and put a plaster on my child! I felt that I was living at the school in England. But two weeks ago my middle son, aged 8, came home with a black eye which had virtually closed up and he could not see out of his eye. He had knocked heads with another child. My OH said I overreacted when I said the school should have called me but I do not think so. He came home with a thumping headache and had to go to bed. Last week my eldest son, who suffers from nosebleeds, had a nosebleed at school. I have taught him how to deal with them but the school were adamant they knew better. They insisted that he lay on the floor with his head bent backwards with tissues shoved up his nose. He told me he was very frightened as he knew they were doing it all wrong and it took a long time to stop. Should I go to the school and give them a firstaid lesson in nosebleeds? Yes I know I have got to do something about his nosebleeds. Before we moved to Spain I saw our GP in the UK and he gave him some cream for his nose and said if he continued having nosebleeds he would have to have it cauterized. But he had his appendix removed about 8 weeks ago and he said he would never set foot in a Spanish hospital again - his care was fantastic though in the hospital.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Sorry to read that you are having a difficult time at the moment.

I wondered whether it would be worth you talking to the school about his nosebleeds and say that all the normal methods have been tried and do not work and that your son will manage to stop them himself as he has been taught by a Doctor on how to do it.

This may help to take the edge off it for you and puts the treatment suggested as medically preferred and not you being perhaps seen as being awkward. Less tension all around if someone else is highlighted/blamed rather than you or the school.

Rosemary

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

The reason you had to go and put a plaster on your child is because of the crazy regulations where you can get claimed against in court.
I hold an Immediate response UK first aid certificate awarded by The London Fire Brigade, but I am not allowed to assist without the injured parties consent.
Is it alright madam if I stop the blood gushing from your wound ?
If they are unconcious then you can carry out the first aid.
If someone is suffering a heart problem and is unable to reach the pills they take, I am allowed to take the pill out of the container and put it in their hand only, I am not allowed to administer it.
How crazy is that ?
Unfortunately this has come about because of the "Sue them attitude"

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Crazy world.

The girls where I worked all relied on me for paracetemol when they needed it. A large bottle was kept in my drawer and they used to ask permission to go to my drawer so that I was not the provider. Madness or what.

Rosemary

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Quote: "Dont suppose you know of any good schools in the Marbella area, where I wouldnt have such problems?"

I worked at Aloha college in the Marbella area. The safety standards there were good, the head of primary Mrs Batchelor, who I believe is still there was great with the children. The children loved her and the atmosphere in the school was good.

I can imagine that it is difficult for you to decide. As an employee of schools on the coast I feel a bit battered myself!

Theres one international school in particular that I think should be closed down this instant, but its not in your area so dont worry.

I just feel that schools need to run and be staffed by individuals who model correct behaviours. Pupils and staff and parents need to respected by school administrations. This doesnt always seem to be the case, staff get bullied as well as children. But that is another issue. But again I do believe that the culture in a school needs to be healthy for all parties involved in it to benefit.

I know members of staff at St Bedes in Estepona who tell me its a good school.

Theres a web site called the www.internationalschoolsreview.com which gives reviews of schools written by teachers, its designed to used as a resource by teachers but it gives a real insiders view of schools. I think you have to pay to access the reviews but there are a few schools on there in your area.

Good luck with your decision making, and if your little girl is happy take comfort from that at least.

Re: Cultural Differences & Lost in Translation - Maybe?
 

Thats good info, thank you.

Aloha is in our mind and I do think that my daughter will end up there. I am waiting to see if I can get her into the local public school first of all as I personally would like her to go the Spanish Route at least whilst she is young.

Its funny how it all changes....when they are young you think " right, she is going to Spanish School" and be part of it, then when you go to see them, things change. Aloha was the last on our list to see and it turned out to be really nice. Although extremely pricey. Ive learnt that you mustnt listen to all the rumours and must make your own mind up.

Thanks very much again