spanish_lawyer

REGARDS!!!

EsuriJohn

(OR HER!!!)

This gets better and better!

Jon-Bxl

Hi SL

Sorry for some reason I thought you didnt have a property yet - my fault. Of course you have a property here, otherwise you couldnt appeal against the EUC - or take so much interest in the development.

Its just that you dont live there yet (permanently).

Just like me - so I should know better. The brain isnt what it used to be!!

Glad to have you on our side and fighting for CE!

Regards
Jon

spanish_lawyer

Hi for all!!!.

When I started writing in this forum, I insisted that the EUC was invalid because it had not been legally established.

An EUC can be formed without a acknowledgement of receipt. But can not work without a certificate of reception, in other words, it is necessary a document certifying that a building or other public work commissioned by a public body (Town Hall) has been completed by the contractor (Martinsa Fadesa, in this case) and that the body concerned has taken formal possession.

In Spain the Law is very clear on that. Town planning legislation and the Courts said that the developer (Martinsa Fadesa) is required to execute the instrument of planning and development project (CE) carry out every determination. The LOUA (Andalusia town planning Law) expected between the obligations of the owner fund and execute the development. In the final liability, compliance with all the urbanization process is the developer and not the purchasers of plots. The Town Hall has TO REQUIRE THE COMPLETION OF IMPLEMENTATION TO THE DEVELOPER.

Once the process developer is finished, the maintenance costs may be incurred by the developer, by the Tom Hall or the purchasers of plots, depending on which is laid on the Partial Plan finalized. In our cause, we will cost the maintenance.

The problem is, it is evident, that the development has not been completed. Nonetheless, the Tom Hall is requiring payment of maintenance, without requiring the completion of the development MF.

How can you prove that this illegality?. Simple: as I said earlier, there should be a acknowledgement of receipt certifying that the development is DEFINITELY completed. Or, at least, part of this.

In this post, I attached an official document: temporary acknowledgement of receipt. This document does not certify the completion of the work. Therefore, the EUC can not require payment of any fee.

Anyone who has paid his dues, I want you to know that they were not obliged. So if you want, with the attached document, you may demand return of payment.

To give you an example: it is as if they charge tax on a car when they have not yet purchased.

As always, I am at your disposal to help in anything.

Best regards,


SL

CAROL TAFF

As there is an EUC general meeting next Friday it is probably a good time to reflect what should come out from it.

I feel that the meeting should determine a requirement to formulate a written EUC Constitution, detailing all the applicable rules, with these made accessible to all members/owners. Inter alia, these would require giving members access to written future expenditure plans/budgets for their approval in a realistic manner. Similarly, written past expenditure details should also be accessible for member approval. Members should also be given access to written minutes of all EUC meetings, both full and committee.

I'm also concerned about the effectiveness of any action intended against non-payers if EUC dues. If there is only a quarter return, the amount required of payers increases four fold. Such an increase would be totally unacceptable.

I intend to attend the meeting and will strive for the above. However, as I apparently do not have a vote, and my Spanish is non-existent, it remains to be seen whether I will achieve anything.

There is also Spanish Lawyer's assertion that the EUC is illegal. The meeting would provide a good forum for the major parties to articulate their views on this. It would be good to find out what Martinsa Fadessa's (MF) future plans are regarding unfinished facilities, particularly the Community Centre and partially built hotel. Are these plans acceptable to the Town Hall, and if not, what do they intend to do about it? Certainly, these facilities are currently an eyesore and something needs to be done to rectify this. If MF had not gone into administration they would be responsible for maintaining the urbanisation; should the EUC not be pursuing MF/MF Administrators for the refund of the costs being currently incurred by the EUC? I will await to see what answers, if any, come out of the meeting before deciding whether or not I take Spanish Lawyer's advise a seek refund of my EUC payment.

Taff

Jon-Bxl

Hi Carol

Good points - as ever. Glad that you will be there and looking forward to the feedback. The only thing I suggest is that you get your intercommunity president on your side as only he/she can vote any change.

I paid my bill but if I dont see strong action against non-payers especially MF + banks - then I dont see why I should pay the second payment. I suspect MF with 2 seats on the board have some sort of 'power' - however if they havent paid ........ they cannot be on the board - and pushing others to pay. Ridiculous!! I hope that comes up as well.

Hope something positive happens from this bag of .....problems!

Thanks
Jon

MEL & JOHN

Hi Carol

Good post and I have sent you an email and just a pointer to all - please make sure that your President is aware of your views for the EUC meeting. Decisions will be made on how our money - those of us that have paid - will be spent. The proposed budget considers €12k for board members expenses
(€6) and for travel and entertainment( €6) It also includes €10k for communications - not had too much of that as yet and the meetings are not even bi-lingual...pretty poor communications up to date. What has astonished us is the fact that L &G have said CE residents want on office on CE - Please who asked for that ? In my opinion they were appointed, hopefully, based on their abilities to do the job and that they were an established company in offices in Ayamonte. The proposed budget has €12k for office rent and €15k for office furniture and computers. Can they not stay where they are, do we want to pay to expand their business ?

€81 for admin and management - we need a breakdown of these types of figures

We want to support anything that helps CE and have paid our fees; want to be supportive of the EUC and its board IF everyone pays and the money is spent wisely and fairly on CE

I just hope we are not a fat goose laying a lovely big golden egg - and then are turned into pate !!

Please contact your president as the meeting is Friday, if he/she can't attend check somebody is there representing you and can vote.

Off my soap box now !

All the best

Mel

Jon-Bxl

Thanks Mel

I attach the budget document - that I only got from a round-about way. (In English) We all agree that the communications have been terrible.

MAIN POINT GET THE MEETINGS BI-LINGUAL so that everybody can take part and understand, as it is a large %age of voters wont go. Why they are resisting this when ALL other meetings, intercommunity and community are already bi-lingual I dont know. I have my suspicions however, that aren't good for us.

Remember if we spread the cost of a translator in a small community meeting, it must cost peanuts spead out across the WHOLE of the development of CE.

Here is the proposed budget for 2010 below. I've cut'n'pasted the salient points. The attachment has more detail... to add some more meat to Mel's post. Note how some items are down to the nearest penny - like the very complex maintenance - but others are nicely rounded, like board members entertainment (posh lunches?) and their expenses. They are rounded to the nearest thousand euros!

Loads of people havent paid - for 09 and will not pay for 10 - so I dont see how they can make this work, especially after their performance in 09. Lets see how this can all pan out. They say that it is unfair to ask payers to subsidise the non-payers and that they will go after the non-payers.... but lets see if they have the balls to go after the big businesses of MF and the banks and if they will pay. The only hope I have is that the payment action has to come from the town hall - who have more powers. But they are notoriously innefficient - remember it took them a year to get names of people with properties, just to send a bill!! Hmmm legal action against non-payers - lets see how good they are at that huge leap in complexity

Lets see what happens at the meeting

Regards
Jon

1.Expenses
1. Maintenance, cleaning, gardening and security 637.063.20
2. Administration and Management 81.335.28
3. Insurance 10.000.00
4. Purchases 40.000.00
5. Utilities 4.000.00
6. Publicity 4.000.00
7. Board members expenses 6.000.00
8. Pest Control 10.000.00
9. Office Rent 12.000.00
10. Communications 10.000.00
11. Travel and entertainment 6.000.00
Total Expenses 820.398.48

2. Investments
12. Furniture 10.000.00
13. Computer equipment 5.000.00
Total Investments 15.000.00

Total Budget 835.398.48

Revenue Budget
The revenue projections for the budget items are classified distinguishing between current income and income from financial operations.

Current revenue
Among the current revenue for 2010 the budget will include

1. Payment of fees
Revenues are the planned contributions of the owners in respect of their shares that will be the main source of funding for the EUC Costa Esuri.

The quotas both monthly and annual have been calculated on the basis of the participation of all urbanizations, the quotas would be the same for ordinary or extraordinary fees, although any extra ordinary fees would if they were necessary have to be approved by the general assembly.

Income from financial transactions

2. Interest Income
This will come from the current accounts that the EUC Costa Esuri will open in bank and or savings banks or co operatives to receive the contributions for the EUC and to make payments so suppliers of goods and services.

Since no agreements of conditions have been made with the entities listed above, we can only give a projected income which has been done conservatively and for a nominal fee, until we have minimally reliable information which is only feasible after the first year of effective functioning of the EUC Costa Esuri.

1. Payment of fees income 950.000.0
2. Interest Income 500.00
Total projected income 2010 950.500.00

MikeJ

I think an office at CE would be a good idea - in the long term and when it can be afforded. In the meantime they should buy (or rent space on) a decent web service and get CE EUC up and visible - bi-lingually - so that we can be kept in touch with what is happening - minutes posted, budgets and agendas displayed, news broadcast etc. A web-site, with a little ingenuity could also be used for voting on some of the issues (if not the budget) and could even by used for paying the fees (which would save some banking costs for the EUC and its members! )
At significantly lower cost than renting and equipping office space the EUC could, and should, establish a presence and communication with its constituency - after all a lot of whom reside overseas.
Mike J

MEL & JOHN

Hi Mike

Why do we need an office on CE when they are in Ayamonte ? It is just additional expense that is not necessary and could be far better spent on the upkeep and maintenance of CE. Surely we do not want our EUC fees to be spent on that ?

I totally agree with everything else you say and I believe it is the intention of L & G to have a web site and this is the best way for communications for all parties.

All the best Mike

Regards

Mel

EsuriJohn

I think you will find that there is a constitution it will follow government guidlines contained in the Law allowing EUC to be formed and was written I think in 2003 but only activated last year. I am sure that if your/my Spanish was good enough we could get a copy from council/intercommunity/community but it would be in Spanish. Now if the Board really wanted to be openand accessable they would have a website and these would all be on there and as google is my friend it would not matter that they were in Spanish. The law is also very clear on no-payers they should be persued and eventually there property re-possed to pay the debt.

jackytoo

In my 15 years of living in Spain I have never seen board members expenses or travel and entertainment

Jur

At least there honest about it............

Jon-Bxl

Bring me a dead horse - so I can flog it whilst standing on my soapbox ....

......But the easiest way of communication that is accessible to all is BI-LINGUAL meetings and communications. The website is a great idea, but takes time while this is a simple way of improving communications by a quantum leap.

The less people that vote at the meetings the more chance that the board can make decisions that they want - under the horizontal property law.

Making communications and meetings more accessible to all does risk them losing control and having to listen to the people who have to actually pay the bills. But surely that is their role? Something to discuss, perhaps over a fine lunch, with some good wines and a nice french cognac..... I know some good restos to recommend to them! Perhaps in Ayamonte so that we can at least reduce the cost of travel to the meal.

Steve and Pat

I