Jon-Bxl

Hi SL + forum - Good News about the EUC. I read this last night but wanted to check again to see if I wasn't dreaming

Firstly I'd like to re-iterate that I see you as a great help to the forum regarding the EUC. Thank you. One has to be careful taking advice on a public forum, and there are sometimes valid suspicions as well. My friend wanted to check the appeal you recommended with a Spanish Lawyer and it was just fine. After the very upsetting experiences I had with my lawyer, the most upsetting experiences I have had from a so-called 'professional' this 'free help' from you is a breath of fresh air. But please understand that people should check for themselves, before committing to any information learned from any public forum. It is not a criticism to the poster.

Regarding English, I speak French daily, but writing is a different matter. A 'normal' French email I can do quickly and thus make many mistakes. Yesterday I had to write an 'official letter' and it took a long time to get it right (as possible), use Google and ask my wife or friends for help. If you've gone to that extra trouble for the important posts (like the appeal) - that's a bigger 'thank you' for the trouble you take in writing another language.

We are in full agreement regarding our huge concerns about the EUC - without any decent communication from them - these concerns can become suspicions as well. We also agree that this has been mismanaged from the beginning, and both don't see how they will get the money they need, and importantly, how they will get the BIGGEST chunk of money from MF. Our approach is different however, you have the skills and knowledge to take this on. I don't. I have paid the bill, as I don't have the time to fight this battle - when I am abroad and have other priorities. So I paid up to save hassle - and to keep me in the clear. The sum was low, so I let my principles slip on this one... THANK you again for the work you do in informing the forum. I know we respect each others approach.

Regarding the Mayor, I cant say anything positive or negative about him, I just don't try and understand the local politics 2500kms away. I do believe however that it is positive that an Ayamonte mayor is on the board of EUC. We are a huge development and to have involvement and a 'direct line' to the head of the town hall must be a good thing.

Also, I don't expect him to be involved with the day to day running of the EUC - he has other responsibilities. So I don't blame him for all the the mis-communication and structural problems of the EUC that we've discussed a lot.

However as the president he has other responsibilities - to run a 'clean' organisation, and make sure that MF commitments are kept and to push for the best service we can receive for our money. He must be seen as protecting the 'normal person' or 'the small guy' - especially when 'big business' is at fault in e.g non-payment of critically important bills. This is where you have a great of knowledge and background and your comments about the way the EUC has acted and the way it is run is very disturbing.

It is great news that the opposition is going to push for reconciliation of MF debts - this may lead to a proper and aggressive push on MF to make good several millions of debt and promised commitments. This is what we all need - as I mentioned in my earlier post. I hope the opposition pushes on all these 2 fronts:

1. Collection of ALL 4 failed debts. IBI, Intercommunity, Community and EUC
   
2. Also if there are such deep concerns - the opposition should also review the whole CE set up and the links between the key players.. if there is any suspicion of 'wrong doing' it didnt just start a month ago when it was time to send out the EUC bills!

A question though... MF are still in bankruptcy hearings and administration. My understanding is that they don't have a 'pot of money' yet and there is a big debtors list of people wanting their money. Once an aggressive push is made (hopefully) for the 1) failed 6m payments, 2) the failed IBI non-payments, 3) the failed Inter community payments and 4) the failed community payments... when can we expect to see the money? Someone told me they have EIGHT YEARS to pay up. I don't know, but if this is the case - we still have a huge problem. The politicians may fight it and each other - but we are immediately and critically affected by late payment.

Thanks for the advice about the Direct debit (DD), even though you are against the EUC, its good to see that the DD isn't a concern. However I still feel edgy about it, I don't use DD a lot e.g my inter+community payments, and in fact pay them well in advance to make sure I stay positive. Perhaps I can re-consider that, as paying when I am not there incurs an extra charge for me. However we have already had to pay 2 additional charges to cover non MF payments here (with a promise of a refund 'sometime'). Without DD at least I can make a decision without an auto-payment. I understand your argument, normally we receive a bill in advance and we have time to consider it before the DD is activated (allowing us to cancel it)... but the experience we had with the EUC is troubling i.e no communication, late bills and no time to respond. Many people have not even received bills and certainly haven't seen them. I might be away when a bill comes in and so not have time to cancel the DD. I'll reconsider it however as a result of your post.

I haven't had any response from L+G from my questions (in my last post) that I think are valuable and important questions for all residents. I've resent it and will wait to see if I get a response. I hope L+G are professional and respond to decent questions from their clients... i.e us that are asked to pay their bill!

I realise that for you this EUC issue is very important and thank you for championing it. I was surprised that you don't live here, but glad that you want to, and if you are ever on a house hunting trip - or in Ayamonte - it would be good to have lunch and perhaps even laugh about it all As bad as it is for us with the huge fall in house prices, its good news for you - so come and join the CE community!

Happy Christmas to all

Jon

MEL & JOHN

Wish I could have wriiten such an excellent reply.....my feelings mirrored !
Thanks Jon and SL and everyone who has written on the subject.

Eva at L & G has been helpful and I have paid the EUC bill (that I have not seen!) via a bank transfer to settle up to date but have not organised a DD, I will see about that when I am next out there. Other then Eva's email to obtain payment I have to say, as we all agree, the lines of communication are dreadful. L & G as our admin company should be instructed by the board to keep us informed. Let us hope that at the next meeting there will be a move towards more openess. Please can I suggest to all that, as JDR says, send an email, phone, write to your President (plot holders cannot of course they have a direct line) and ask him/her to attend the next EUC meeting and let him know your views. If he or she cannot go ask them to give their proxy vote to the Vice Pres. Let us not just lie down and pay up....pay up YES but have your views known. We all want CE to grow and prosper but our money must be well spent and M Fadesea MUST pay and we should not be subsidising others who may be thinking of not paying. Phew ..rant over !

Merry Christmas to you all and here's to many lovely stress free and relaxing sunny holidays in CE in 2010.

Take care

Mel and John

spanish_lawyer

Thank you very much. I have been thinking:you be right. I only am going to write about the CE. I won't answer comments that I do not think this is important for CE.

I believe in the freedom. If someone does not want to read me, I will respect it.
I am going to continue writtind about our problem: CE.

Carol&John

"28TH DECEMBER, DAY THE PLENARY SESSION OF THE TOWN HALL IN WHICH THIS REQUEST OF EXECUTION WILL BE VOTED"

I hope this isn't one big "inocente"?

Carol

spanish_lawyer

Noooo, I promise you: I true!!!!!.

I will tell how the meeting was.

CAROL TAFF

MF are certainly behind with their community and intercommunity payments and, undoubtedly, that also applies to IBI and EUC debts. However, I believe that Spanish Law is on our side. The only future income MF (and for that matter, Albatross Golf and other developers) have is from the sale of their completed but unsold properties. I understand that is Spanish Law, any debts associated with a sold property are transferred to the buyer. Therefore, nobody is likely to buy until all outstanding debts have been paid. Thus MF will have to pay these prior to the sale. It is unlikely that this will take 8 years.

Nevertheless, efforts to get MF to pay should be continued as it will be some time before all are sold.

Taff

CAROL TAFF

You have a fairly benign view of the Ayamonte Mayor and, indeed, I guess its important that we keep him onside.

However, his record so far is not good.

I feel, as does Spanish Lawyer, he should have done much more in ensuring MF meet their obligations in meeting their Planning Agreement commitments.
Instead he ran for cover and got the EUC established so as to transfer costs, that should have been MF's, to the CE owners. This was done prior to a project completion agreement with MF which, in SL's view, was illegal. The Mayor set himself up as the president of the EUC, and must therefore hold responsibility for its shambolic performance since established, particularly with regard to the lack of information distribution, and the billing of members with little or no notice before the last date of payment prior to default payments.

The Mayer will presumably instigate action to chase up unpaid IBI and EUC bills, although I understand that progress with regard to the former has not been impressive. However, I don't see him or the opposition getting involved with any action to facilitate payment of Community and Intercommunity unpaid bills.

Taff

Jon-Bxl

Hi Taff

Benign perhaps - but I do think its his responsibility to run a clean op with protection for us against big business. And if he has failed in this its very disturbing, as I mentioned.

What is key here is the answer to the question of WHEN we can get the money owed - based on the bankruptcy/administration. The answer may even explain some of the decisions made.

1. Spanish Lawyer - if you know the process please can you advise on what is the best outcome from the 28/12 meeting - during which the opposition will push for the payments. Assuming that the answer is positive, how much time do MF have to pay the bills please?
   
2. Also when the administration process is over, how much time do they have to pay their bills. I heard 7 or 8 years several times now. If this is true we are still in a mess - whatever the opposition do on 28/12.

I agree, Taff, that money comes in when MF sells properties, they will have to pay outstanding debt - or reduce the sales price by this amount - which simply transfers the debt. At that point we have to hope that the new owners pay up. This is not the best situation of course, and I hope that any sales have a pre-payment of debt. But I wonder/suspect which method they will use.

Also, hopefully, even though sales wont take 8 years... I feel that they will still take a number of years.

Lets see

Thanks and regards
Jon

BTW - I also HOPE that the lawyers follow this debt up for completion - they should of course as the first and basic point i.e check outstanding debt. But if they dont the new owner will be hopping mad and there will be a long delay whilst he/she fights the useless lawyer - who didnt do his job properly and check for outstanding debt. Hmmm where have I heard this story before !!

Jon-Bxl

HAPPY NEW YEAR AND DECADE TO EVERYONE

...... AND GREETING FROM ESURI. Its been pouring down, as bad as Monsoons Ive been in, but we have had an amazing New years set of meeting and parties with friends.... virtually non-stop. The social life here is fantastic!

EUC admins have kindly responsded to my questions - but I didnt understand fully so I have asked them again. Its great that they will communicate in English.

What I understand is this so far:

• EUC payments are due June and December
• They will be approximately what the first bill was last December
• MF will be pushed to pay their bills.

I still have my concerns, as per the last post, and its vitally important that MF pay - as they have the biggest chunk.... AND they are board members, the largest part, and so must set an example. However I dont know IF they will pay, HOW thay can pay (re them being in Administration) and WHEN they will pay.

Of course if MF get 'special treatment' having such a large proportion of the money to pay, then the EUC cannot really expect other residents to pay either. Especially as they have such a big part of the board.

Well its New Year - so cant get all hung up about the EUC today - sun is out and we are having a ball here.

Happy New Year

Jon

MikeJ

Somewhat ironic that the advertisement at the foot of the page is "Pay Off Your Debts"

jdr

The adds are geared to the thread discussion.

Beautiful ladies, buy one get one free.

Well I can try can`t I.

EsuriJohn

I think the jury is still out if we are in the new decade or not but have a happy one anyway.

Do you mean that we will pay 2 x (the December bill) per annum in future? If that is the case I am going to appeal when you tell me how.

Jon-Bxl

Thats what they told me - funny how this has not been communicated and I only found out by contacting them directly. Typical for the EUC. I thought the appeals process had to be started and done before the original bill date 2 December. But its Spanish Lawyer, SL, that really understands it best - I didnt appeal and paid, so didnt follow the detail. However I think if you search on SL's posts you will see how its done.

I may also appeal if I dont see a good response from MF about their EUC bill debts - with 2 on the board they should not get any special treatment and then expect us to pay.

Hope alls well
Jon

Ps I like to think its a new decade!

EsuriJohn

Yes we will leave to the pedants to argue if it is or not lets celebrate the new decade and hope that it is the one in which Esuri blosems.

The posts of SL are sometimes difficult to follow but in one (I think in response to you) he seemed to say that if you had already paid (you and I) there was still a route to appeal.

spanish_lawyer

HELLO FOR ALL!!!!.

I HAD BEEN ON HOLIDAYS AND I HADN´T SEEN THIS THREAD. ON 23TH DECEMBER, ON THE EVENING, I WAS WITH ALBERTO FERNÁNDEZ, CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR BY PARTIDO POPULAR. I WAS SPEAKING WITH HIM SEVERAL HOURS ABOUT HIS APPROACH. HE SAID ME:

- HE HAS PRESENTED A PROPOSITION (MOTION) TO EXECUTE 6 MILLION EUROS. HE GAVE A COPY, WHICH I ATTACH TO THIS POST. THIS OFFER WILL BE DEBATED AND APPROVED. HE HAS THE COMMITMENT OF THE REST OF COUNCILMEN IN THE NEXT PLENARY MEETING (JANUARY).

- ABOUT THE MARINA. HE HAS A VERY CLEAR IDEA: THE MARINA IS IN PHASE OF STUDY. IF THIS ONE IS APPROVED BY THE PORT AUTHORITY OF HUELVA, HE SUPPORTS THE EXECUTION BECAUSE HE TOLD ME THAT THE 37 MILLONS OF EUROS WHO THE MAYOR SAID THAT THE TOWN HALL SUPPORTS, IT IS NOT TRUE. REALLY, THE JUNTA DE ANDALUCÍA WILL BE WHO CONTRIBUTE THIS MONEY. HE WAS SURPRISED WHEN I TOLD HIM THAT THE MAYOR SAYS THAT THE TOWN HALL SAYS THAT ONE WILL PUT THIS QUANTITY OF MONEY.

- I TOLD ME THAT THE ARQUITECT OF THE THIS STUDY IS JAIME MONTANER WAS INVOLVED IN THE TOPICS OF CORRUPTION OF MARBELLA (COAST OF THE SOL). I PERSONALLY HAVE LOOKED FOR IT IN GOOGLE AND IT IS TRUE. ALBERTO COMMENTED TO ME THAT HE IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT IN AYAMONTE IT SHOULD HAPPEN LIKE IN MARBELLA.HE WILL STRAIN IN ORDER THAT AYAMONTE IS A MODAL ON THE COAST OF HUELVA, HAVE A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND THE INFRASTRUCTURES NECESSARY FOR A MUNICIPALITY GIVE 20.000 HABITANTS.

- HE THINKS THAT THE MAYOR IS "WHOLE AND ABSOLUTELY LYING TO THE CITIZENS, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE OF COAST ESURI ". HE JUSTIFIED THIS AFFIRMATION ASK TO ME: "CAN YOU SAY ME SOMETHING THAT THE MAYOR OR THE TOWN HALL HAS REALIZED TO IMPROVE COAST ESURI?." ACTUALLY I THOUGHT THAT NEITHER THE MAYOR, NOR THE TOWN HALL HAS IMPROVED ALL THE SITUATION, SO LAMENTABLY, THAT WE HAVE.

- ON HIS AIMS HE WAS VERY FORCEFUL. HIS PRIORITY IS TO TAKE PART ACTIVELY IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF COAST ESURI. HE ASSURED ME THAT HE WILL PRESS MF IN ORDER THAT IT FULFILLS ALL THE OBLIGATIONS THAT THERE HAS HANGING: COMMUNITIES, QUOTAS OF THE EUC, OR PAYMENT OF TAX. HE WILL ACT AGAINST MF PROVIDING THAT THIS ONE ACTUE IN OPPOSITION TO THE MEMBERS OF THE EUC. ((PERSONALLY I OBSERVED A CLEAR COMMITMENT WITH COAST ESURI PROVIDED THAT HE KNOWS PERFECTLY THE ABANDON THAT HAS ON THE PART OF THE MUNICIPAL PERSONS IN CHARGE)).

- I ASKED HIM, AS LAWYERS BOTH ARE, HOW HE COULD PRESS MF IN ORDER THAT IT WILL PAY THE COMMUNITIES, PROVIDED THAT IT IS NOT A MUNICIPAL COMPETITION. HE WAS VERY CLEARLY. IF THEY DO NOT EXPIRE WITH HIS OBLIGATIONS, SO MUCH TO LEVEL PRIVATE LIKE PUBLICLY, HE WILL ACT LEGALLY AGAINST THEM AND THEY WILL HAVE IN THE TOWN HALL AN ENEMY. I COMPARED HIS IDEA WITH THE CURRENT ONE THAT HAS THE MAYOR. BOTH WERE AGREEMENT IN THE SITUATION CURRENT: THE MAYOR HAD NEVER PRESSED MF TO FULFILLING HIS) OBLIGATIONS. HE HAD ASKED FOR TO THE MAYOR IN SEVERAL OCCASIONS THAT HE WILL OPERATE ACTIVELY ON COAST ESURI. HIS STAGNATION WAS THE ONE THAT HAS FORCED HIM TO PRESENT A PROPOSITION TO EXECUTE THE GUARANTEES. THIS WILL BE HIS FIRST STEP.

- ABOUT THE EUC, HE IS STUDYING THE CORRECT CONSTITUTION OF THIS ONE. IF HE HAS THE MINIM SUSPICION THAT THIS ONE HAS BEEN CREATED BY INTEREST OF THE MAYOR OR OF MF WILL MAKE THE FACT PUBLIC.

- I WAS SPEAKING A LOT TIME WITH HIM. FINALLY HE SAID ME TWO THINGS THAT I CONSIDER TO BE IMPORTANTS: 1) THE SOCIALIST PARTY (PSOE) GOES 30 YEARS IN THE POWER IN AYAMONTE, AND ONLY IT HAS MOVED FOR PERSONAL INTERESTS. AYAMONTE NEEDS SOMEONE WHO LOOKED FOR YOUR CITIZENS; 2) HIS PARENTS HAVE A FLAT ON COAST ESURI, WHICH THEY BOUGHT INITIALLY OF THE DEVELOPMENT. HE KNOWS, PERFECTLY, AS THIS CE AND IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT THIS ZONE OF AYAMONTE SHOULD TURN INTO A MARGINAL ZONE.

- HE SAID ME THAT IF THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM HAVE QUESTION FOR HIM, I CAN CALL HIM AT ANY TIME. I ALSO AM READY TO DO OF INTERMEDIARY.

- MI OPPINION: I AM SATISFIED BECAUSE I FELT THAT HE IS VERY INTERESTED IN FIGHTING TO DEVELOP CE. HE DOES NOT WORRY INTERESTS THAT ARE NOT THOSE OF THE OWNERS. HE REPEATED ME SEVERAL TIMES THAT HE WILL WORK FOR THE GENERAL INTEREST, NOT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL.

- AS FOR MF's PAYMENTS, WHICH IT HAS BEEN COMMENTED IN THIS THREAD. I ALSO HAVE HEARD THAT THEY ARE GOING TO PAY!!!!!. I THINK LIKE MIKE J "Somewhat ironic that the advertisement at the foot of the page is " Pay Off Your Debts" .

- LEGALLY ANY PAYMENT THAT MF DOES HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THE MANAGERS COMPETE FOR THEM. IF THEY DO NOT PAY THE COMMUNITY OF HIS HOUSINGS, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO PAY THE QUOTAS OF CONSERVATION OF THE EUC?. THE STOPPAGE OF PAYMENTS THAT THEY HAVE PREVENTS THEM THAT THEY COULD PAY.

- THE NEXT MEETING EUC WILL BE ON 5TH FEBRUARY AT 5:00 P.M. IN THE FIRST SUMMONS AND AT 6 P.M. IN SECOND. IF MF HAD PAID, I WANT THAT THE ADMINISTRATORS SAY IT THERE. I HAVE HEARD THAT THE DATE FOR TO PAY HAS BEEN EXTENDED EVEN 20TH FEBRUARY. FROM THIS DAY, THE EUC WILL BEGIN THE COMPEL PAYMENT... I DO NOT BELIEVE NEITHER MF PAID, NOR THAT THEY APLLY ME TO PROCEDURES GENERALLY USED BY ADMINISTRATIVE AUTHORITIES TO ANNOUNCE THE IMPOSING OF TO PENALTY. NEVERTHELESS, I PROMISE THAT IF THEY DO IT, I WILL COMMENT ON IT.

HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR ALL!!!!.

SL