mariadolores

To spanish lawyer

I am sorry . My English is very poor . I·ve only asked to spanislawyer for more information

Hola , acabo de recibir la carta para domiciliar el pago de la EUC ( 174 euros ) todo ello remitido por el ayto . No tengo ni idea ni de que tipo de impuesto es , ni para que uso es el dinero , ni si es legal ... Yo vivo en Bilbao así que he llamado al Ayuntamiento de Ayamonte para informarme y me dicen que ellos no saben nada y me remiten a un teléfono !!!!móvil !!! de un despacho de abogados al cual llamo pero no me contestan
Como puede un ayuntamiento dar un sello oficial sobre unos cobros de los que no saben nada y encima te remiten aun tfno móvil en el que nadie responde

Te agradeceria me informases un poco sobre que va esto porque mi intención en principio es no pagar pues yo ya pago religiosamente el IBI ( bastante caro por cierto ) y mis recibos de la comunidad e intracomunidad .
Te dejo mi mail

Gracias

Apologize again . If anyone can translate this ...

Thank you very much

MikeJ

Google Translation
Hello, I just received the letter for direct debit payment of EUC (174 euros), all sent by the ayto. I have no idea or what type of tax is, or to use the money, or if it is legal ... I live in Bilbao so I called the City of Ayamonte to find out and tell me they know nothing and they send me a phone!! Mobile! of a law firm which I call but do not answer
As a municipality may give an official stamp on a collection of those who know nothing and even refer you over to the mobile tel no one responds

Te agradeceria me enlighten you a bit about this because it is my intention in principle is not paying religiously since I already pay the IBI (quite expensive by the way) and my receipts and intracomunidad community.

jackytoo

Google didn't do a bad job for a change! Pity none of our spanish members weren't around

Must be confusing this EUC stuff if spanish have to ask questions about it

MikeJ

Just for additional information I attach a copy of the statute for the EUC of Calahonda.
It would be nice if we were provided with this sort of information from the committee of the CE EUC. Calahonda's EUC has its own website which sets out the services provided by the EUC for the urbanisation.

What I don't understand is the relationships between the various property related taxes we are expected to pay. I think I understand the Community Charge and the Intercommunity Charge (although the Intercommunity responsibilities seem to overlap very much with the (assumed) responsibilities of the EUC). Again there seems to be another big overlap between the service provided by the Municipality for which we pay the IBI and the (assumed) services to be provided by the EUC.

The total for us is nearly €1500 per annum - which is nearly double what I was initially led to believe when we bought and this figure does not include any payment to the EUC) and comes close to my UK Council Tax bill

MikeJ

Having just read through the Calahonda EUC statute - it makes very interesting reading. If it is typical of the constitution of an EUC under Spanish Law (and it seems to be so) viz:
"The C.U.E. [Name of Urbanisation] will be ruled by the
present Statutes and in unforeseen situations, by the regulations
contained in the Reglamento de Gestión Urbanística dated 25
August 1.978 which are generally applied to Collaborating
Urbanistic Entities, as well as by all other Urbanistic regulations
that apply to these entities.
2.- It is also hereby established that the Horizontal Property Law
of 21st July 1.960 in its new wording after the Law 8/1999 of 6th
April and other Common Civil Laws should be applied
supplementarily to the aforementioned regulations."

then I would say that there is reason for concern about the legality of the CE EUC. The members of the EUC Board of Directors MUST be property owners (except for a co-opted member from the Municipality) and must be elected by property owners - not self-appointed as seems to have been the case - at a properly convened General Assembly.

BTW - did the planned ex-tempore meeting take place at the end of September?

marisol

Hello Maria Dolores, here it is. I have tried to do the best i can:

Hello, I have just received the letter to pay the ECU (174€) by direct debit, everything sent by the town council. I have no idea either what kind of tax it is, nor what this money is used for, even if it is legal… I live in Bilbao so I have called to the Ayamonte town council to inform about it and they tell me that they don’t know anything and give me a lawyer’s office’s telephone “mobile” to which I call to but nobody answer me.
How can an town council give an official stamp about charges about which they know nothing and besides that, they send you to a mobile phone in which nobody answer.

I would be very grateful if you inform me a little about all of this because my intention in principle is not to pay due to I already pay religiously the IBI (quite expensive, by the way) and my community and intercommunity bills.
I leave my e-mail
thanks

kind regards,
marisol

mariadolores

Muchas gracias Marisol

Entiendo inglés pero me es muy dificil escribir

marisol

Hello Maria Dolores
I think the EUC is a tax that we all have to pay due to we are living in a development out of the town. The same happens in Madrid, in all the develompments, people who live there, have to pay tax for it and i think it happens in all over Spain.
We have to pay for everything, you know, but, unfortunately, we have to pay.
regards
marisol

MikeJ

EUC is a Collaborating Urbanistic Entity (in Spanish). It is normally set up when the developer has discharged his legal responsibility for the urbanisation and hands it over to a community of residents to manage. This normally happens some years after the complete completion of the urbanisation. The EUC should be set up on behalf of the residents as a legal and judicial entity - which means that it can legally charge fees (which seem to be collected through the municipal revenue collection services). It is registered with the Spanish authorities. So far so good - and is what is expected to happen.
However, in the case of Costa Esuri there are a number of issues:
1. Martinsa Fadesa went into administration before the completion of the urbanisation - so they should still have responsibility for the maintainance of the urbanisation still. As they are still trading in administration and not legally bankrupt there is a possible legal case against them (but I am not a lawyer so cannot really comment)
2. MF provided a promissory note to cover the costs of maintaining the urbanisation. Because they are in administration this promissory note is now worth very little, if anything.
3. There is still an ongoing cost to maintain the urbanisation which the Ayamonte council was being forced to cover. And (quite rightly in my opinion) the Mayor did not see why the citizens of Ayamonte should pick up this extra cost.
4. The Mayor (I think) proposed the early creation of the EUC to cover the shortfall by charging the property owners for the upkeep of the urbanisation. On the face of it it sounds like an equitable solution, although there is a case which says that the owners are in effect being expected to pay twice - once in the price paid on the assumption that no additional charges would be incurred until the urbanisation is compete and all facilities in place - and then again through the creation of the EUC before MF have discharged their responsibilities under contract.
5. The actual creation of the Management Board of the EUC is shrouded in mystery - and looks like a stitch-up between the local politicians and the developers. It may not be and may be quite legitimate but because there has been so little information from the EUC Board then these rumours are bound to circulate.
6. According to Spanish law - the EUC should be convened at a General Assembly to which all property owners should be invited. It does not appear that enough effort was made for a representative General Assembly. I know that I personally as an owner did not receive an invitation and indeed was completely unaware of the meeting until long afterwards.
7. There is already in existence the Intercommunity Committee - which is made up of Presidents from each community within the urbanisation, who themselves have been democratically elected. The Intercommunity levees a charge and provides a number of services concerned with upkeep of the public areas of the urbanisation. It seems to me that there is a big overlap between what the Intercommunity is funding and what is being funded through the EUC. Again, it seems to some of us that we are paying many times for the same services. There was a proposal that the Intercommunity should become, in effect, the EUC. This does seem to have its attractions, particularly in simplifying the complexity and showing we, the owners, where our money is being spent. However, this was actually voted down by a sizable majority by the Intercommunity committee.

I don't know where that leaves us? We could let sleeping dogs lie, accepting that sometimes a good solution comes out of a murky process. Or we could seek some legal advice - but I don't know how that would be organised or funded. At the very least we should expect some clear and transparent messages from "our" EUC Board Members.

MikeCol

Re EUC Bill, we collected ours (along with several others) from the Tributaria this morning and as several people have mentioned they have to be paid by 2/12/09. From next year you can arrange it to be paid by DD along with you IBI. Regards Bryony.

Carol&John

Costa Esuri EUC AGM/public meeting on 28th December 2009 at the Casa Grande.
Time 17:00 for first convocatoria, then 18:00 for second "call" to meeting.

Lush

Why is direct communication not coming from the EUC Comittee? Why is the dead line so tight when surely it is known that the majority of properties are second homes and there are not as many people out there at the moment? Sorry for the rant but I find this whole situation frustrating. I understand the EUC but in the case of Esuri I find that the whole thing has been and still is badly managed. I thought that we had an Esuri Representative on the Board? Would it not be considerate of this person to notify us of any information immediately?

Off for deep breaths!!!!!

Woodzie

Hi Carol&John

Where is Casa Grande?
Kim

jdr

Have you given this person your contact address ?

MikeJ

We have had two separate notifications today - one from our Management Co (Purple Parrot) and one from ADA. Both have an extract from a letter from Steve Tipper (EUC Treasurer) who says that the deadline for payment has been extended for non-residents to end of December - which gives a little more room for maneuver.
He also provides an email address for L&G who have offered to collect your bill from the tributaria, tell you what you owe and accept transfer into a client account so they can pay it for you and then send you a receipt and DD form for next year, by snail mail to your home address - for free!! (well, as they actually get paid from this income you can see what's in it for them