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cost of living in spain

cost of living in spain

Old Jul 18th 2006, 10:11 am
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
We haven't made our mind up yet. I can stay where I am or there are other opportunities for me in north america. But this forum was very helpful when we were first thinking about moving from Aus to L.A. so I want to get feedback again before our next big decision to move or not.
As an non EU citizen, be prepared you real hassle in getting a permit to work in Spain.

Contact your Spanish embassy for details before you leave. Once in Spain you will not be able to work unless you managed to get a permit before leaving Canada.
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Old Jul 18th 2006, 8:29 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
Hi all,

Thanks for your comments. The 50k euros would be my yearly salary, before tax, and it would have to cover everything. Your comnments seem to vary quite a bit. bfg69bug says we would live like kings but BritBull disagrees. Obviously circumstances such as where one lives, spending habits, etc make a big difference. However, in general it seems most of you think we will survive ok, which is good news.

Why do we want to move to Spain instead of staying canada or Aus? Well Aus is great and we eventually want to move back there and live for good. However, the problem with Aus is that its small population combined with isolation from anywhere means that for some professions (like mine) there are not many chances for emplyoment growth. Beside, when I go back to Aus I will have to start paying my student loans.

As for Canada, the one major negative factor about Canada is the weather. We grew up in a warm climate and Canada is just too cold for us. Its ok for a few years but eventually the long long winters get to you (to us anyway). Don't get me wrong Canadians are great. It is very hard to dislike Canadians, unless your American. However, Canada in many ways is too similar to the U.S. (we have also lived in California). This forum is probably not the right forum to go into detail about what I mean by my previous sentence.

Anyway, as for Spain the weather is more to our liking, job prospects are good for my profession within the EU, and we would like the chance to look around Europe.

We haven't made our mind up yet. I can stay where I am or there are other opportunities for me in north america. But this forum was very helpful when we were first thinking about moving from Aus to L.A. so I want to get feedback again before our next big decision to move or not.
I think bfg69bug was talking of 'survivng' as in paying the bills at not much else. I beleive he also lives a little way into the hills which is naturally a different world form that of Madrid, the Capital City of Spain...

50k euros after taxation depending on you circumstances with regards Wife, Kids etc. You are looking at around 28,000 per year take home or 2100 per month. All approximations.
This will get you a resonable existence in Madrid.
Going out for meals and enjoying life is the same as any City or coastal holiday spot, stay away from the tourist areas where prices for simple food & drinks tend to treble in price.
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Old Jul 18th 2006, 8:52 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

The main negative to living in Madrid is the cost of rent, we just signed the lease for a property in Tres Cantos, north of the city and we're paying almost a grand a month. Almost impossible to find anything cheaper than that. You could go way outside of the city but then you've got communting time. I don't know how the Spanish can afford to live here.

Generally speaking taxes and the cost of living are lower here. Utilites in particular are much cheaper. I saw a posting about the cost of living somewhere esle where the person put his cost of living outside of rent mortage at 15.000 euros a year, he lived in the south.
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Old Jul 18th 2006, 11:52 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
Hi all,

Thanks for your comments. The 50k euros would be my yearly salary, before tax, and it would have to cover everything. Your comnments seem to vary quite a bit. bfg69bug says we would live like kings but BritBull disagrees. Obviously circumstances such as where one lives, spending habits, etc make a big difference. However, in general it seems most of you think we will survive ok, which is good news.

Why do we want to move to Spain instead of staying canada or Aus? Well Aus is great and we eventually want to move back there and live for good. However, the problem with Aus is that its small population combined with isolation from anywhere means that for some professions (like mine) there are not many chances for emplyoment growth. Beside, when I go back to Aus I will have to start paying my student loa

As for Canada, the one major negative factor about Canada is the weather. We grew up in a warm climate and Canada is just too cold for us. Its ok for a few years but eventually the long long winters get to you (to us anyway). Don't get me wrong Canadians are great. It is very hard to dislike Canadians, unless your American. However, Canada in many ways is too similar to the U.S. (we have also lived in California). This forum is probably not the right forum to go into detail about what I mean by my previous sentence.

Anyway, as for Spain the weather is more to our liking, job prospects are good for my profession within the EU, and we would like the chance to look around Europe.

We haven't made our mind up yet. I can stay where I am or there are other opportunities for me in north america. But this forum was very helpful when we were first thinking about moving from Aus to L.A. so I want to get feedback again before our next big decision to move or not.
What is your profession?
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 12:10 am
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Post Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
Hi all,

Thanks for your comments. The 50k euros would be my yearly salary, before tax, and it would have to cover everything. Your comnments seem to vary quite a bit. bfg69bug says we would live like kings but BritBull disagrees. Obviously circumstances such as where one lives, spending habits, etc make a big difference. However, in general it seems most of you think we will survive ok, which is good news.

Why do we want to move to Spain instead of staying canada or Aus? Well Aus is great and we eventually want to move back there and live for good. However, the problem with Aus is that its small population combined with isolation from anywhere means that for some professions (like mine) there are not many chances for emplyoment growth. Beside, when I go back to Aus I will have to start paying my student loans.

As for Canada, the one major negative factor about Canada is the weather. We grew up in a warm climate and Canada is just too cold for us. Its ok for a few years but eventually the long long winters get to you (to us anyway). Don't get me wrong Canadians are great. It is very hard to dislike Canadians, unless your American. However, Canada in many ways is too similar to the U.S. (we have also lived in California). This forum is probably not the right forum to go into detail about what I mean by my previous sentence.

Anyway, as for Spain the weather is more to our liking, job prospects are good for my profession within the EU, and we would like the chance to look around Europe.

We haven't made our mind up yet. I can stay where I am or there are other opportunities for me in north america. But this forum was very helpful when we were first thinking about moving from Aus to L.A. so I want to get feedback again before our next big decision to move or not.

You say you want to move to Spain for the weather. Do you realise it can get very cold in Madrid during the winter? Maybe not so long as the winters you are presently experiencing.
As for taxes, you don’t say if you will be work either as a self-employed person or with your own company. If so be prepared to pay €234.14 (autonomos) per month, that is to pay into the health system (in simple terms). You have to pay this no matter whether you have any profit that month or not. That is hard
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 6:48 am
  #21  
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
Hi all,

Thanks for your comments. The 50k euros would be my yearly salary, before tax, and it would have to cover everything. Your comnments seem to vary quite a bit. bfg69bug says we would live like kings but BritBull disagrees. Obviously circumstances such as where one lives, spending habits, etc make a big difference. However, in general it seems most of you think we will survive ok, which is good news.

Why do we want to move to Spain instead of staying canada or Aus? Well Aus is great and we eventually want to move back there and live for good. However, the problem with Aus is that its small population combined with isolation from anywhere means that for some professions (like mine) there are not many chances for emplyoment growth. Beside, when I go back to Aus I will have to start paying my student loans.

As for Canada, the one major negative factor about Canada is the weather. We grew up in a warm climate and Canada is just too cold for us. Its ok for a few years but eventually the long long winters get to you (to us anyway). Don't get me wrong Canadians are great. It is very hard to dislike Canadians, unless your American. However, Canada in many ways is too similar to the U.S. (we have also lived in California). This forum is probably not the right forum to go into detail about what I mean by my previous sentence.

Anyway, as for Spain the weather is more to our liking, job prospects are good for my profession within the EU, and we would like the chance to look around Europe.

We haven't made our mind up yet. I can stay where I am or there are other opportunities for me in north america. But this forum was very helpful when we were first thinking about moving from Aus to L.A. so I want to get feedback again before our next big decision to move or not.
Having lived in Madrid for three years I can safely say that 50,000 euros a year before tax will give you comfortable lifestyle but nothing more. It's well above the national average but you won't be living like a king as another poster suggested. Your biggest expense will be rent which, for a family of three in a reasonable area, will cost you about 1000 euros a month. Forget about buying a place in Madrid for at least ten years though as property prices there are astronomical (in relation to wages).

How old is your child? Does he/she speak Spanish? If not and you want to send him/her to school here then you're going to have to send him/her to a private school with English-speaking teachers. It won't come cheap. Do some research and figure that into your budget.

As another poster suggested, the weather is not a great selling point for moving to Madrid. A popular local saying is 'nueve meses de invierno, tres meses de infierno' (nine months of winter, three months of hell). Winters are long and cold and summer is scorchingly hot.

Having said all that, I can highly recommend Madrid (though I prefer Barcelona) as a place to live and work. I loved my time there and I miss it a lot. Just make sure that you do lots of research before you go and be sure that this is what you and your family really want.

Good luck.
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 1:49 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

you think that 1000€ rents are uncoman anywhere else apart from amdrid ? yes you can get cheap rents on the costa del sol, but you are looking on maybe 850 / 900 a month for a 2 bed flat anwhere from the coast as far inland as alhaurin.


i have no idea why anyone thinks that 50,000€ is not going to get them a very good life ! 4170€ a month, assuming that it is after tax ? a THOUSAND a week??? you could eat out for every meal, do nothing in your house apart from sleep.. and STILL struggle to spend 1000€ a week !


just think. average fone bill, 150€/month. gas, maybe 2 bottles at 25€. electric maybe 70€ a month, rent, around 1000€ a month. so average that at 1225€ a month. food, say 100€ a week.. thats 1625€ ...where are you really going to spend the other 2545€ EVERY month !?!?!!??!?!


oh dear god to be rich
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 6:28 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Hi,

The 50k euros is before tax.

BritBull: where do you get 2100 per month take home from? According to my estimates, with a wife (not working) and child my take home after tax would be just over 3000 euros. I would be taking a pay cut if we move to spain and the cost of living almost anywhere in europe is higher than Canada (how the average Brit can afford to live in the UK is beyond my understanding). However, as long as the salary of 50k euros is enough to get by comfortable than we don't mind the cut in pay.

Casa Santo Estevo: I would be working for a european company, not myself. I looked up the average temperatures for Madrid and they seem ok to us. The changes from winter to summer are a bit more significant than Sydney but nothing like the extremes you get in Canada where summer can be above 30C and winter below -30C.

glynis: Rather not say my profession. However, to elborate on my previous post, the reason there isn't much opportunities for me in my field in Aus is because they don't have a space program/agency. The US, Canada and EU each have one.

I have a couple of other questions.
Does spain have universal health care? Is private health care expensive in Spain?

With regards to income taxes, I read that a non-resident can now choose to remain a non-resident for tax purposes for upto 5 years and pay a flat 25% income tax. If you take this option does it mean you can't apply for tax deductions such as having a child, married, etc? When I worked out our overall tax rate it would very close to 25% anyway so it may not be worth taking the non-resident for tax option.

What about Car insurance. In Canada car insurance is just sooo ridiculously high, and even more so if you have no credit history or no insurance history in canada. Its high they tell me because of the number of collisions during winter and the wind screen damage due to small rocks on the road after the snow melts.

And speaking of credit ratings. In north america your credit rating/history is more important than your life. Do you have this crap in Spain? They even check it when you go to rent a house, install telephone, cable, etc. There should be a law against it. In Australia they can only check your credit history when you go for a loan or something like that. If you have no credit history in north america most finance institutes don't want to know you. Is this the case in Spain? How long before I can get a credit card, personal loan, etc?

Many thanks.
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 8:00 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by bfg69bug
you think that 1000€ rents are uncoman anywhere else apart from amdrid ? yes you can get cheap rents on the costa del sol, but you are looking on maybe 850 / 900 a month for a 2 bed flat anwhere from the coast as far inland as alhaurin.


i have no idea why anyone thinks that 50,000€ is not going to get them a very good life ! 4170€ a month, assuming that it is after tax ? a THOUSAND a week??? you could eat out for every meal, do nothing in your house apart from sleep.. and STILL struggle to spend 1000€ a week !


just think. average fone bill, 150€/month. gas, maybe 2 bottles at 25€. electric maybe 70€ a month, rent, around 1000€ a month. so average that at 1225€ a month. food, say 100€ a week.. thats 1625€ ...where are you really going to spend the other 2545€ EVERY month !?!?!!??!?!


oh dear god to be rich
IT IS BEFORE TAX.
Read the replies...
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
Hi,

The 50k euros is before tax.

BritBull: where do you get 2100 per month take home from? According to my estimates, with a wife (not working) and child my take home after tax would be just over 3000 euros. I would be taking a pay cut if we move to spain and the cost of living almost anywhere in europe is higher than Canada (how the average Brit can afford to live in the UK is beyond my understanding). However, as long as the salary of 50k euros is enough to get by comfortable than we don't mind the cut in pay.
It was an estimate and 50k per year with 1 child, I still make it around 24,860 per year after tax. Not 3000+

Year - 50000 - 4800 - 45% = 24860
Month - 24860 / 365 * 30 = 2043


Euro from- To-IncomeTax Rate- NationalStateTax Rate- TotalTax Rate-Total
Nil 4,000 9.06% 5.94% 15.00% 600
4,000 13,800 15.84% 8.16% 24.00% 2,952
13,800 25,800 18.68% 9.32% 28.00% 6,312
25,800 45,000 24.71% 12.29% 37.00%13,416
Over 45,000 29.16% 15.84% 45.00%

Taxes vary in the Basque Country, Navarra and in certain other communities


Personal Allowances for Spanish income tax- minimo personal

General PA 3,400 euro
Age PA (65+) 4,200 euro (75+) 5,200 euro
Disabled PA 2,000 - 6,200 euro depending on degree of incapacity

Child allowance

First child - 1,400 euro
Second child - 1,500 euro
Third child - 2,200 euro
Fourth child - 2,300 euro

Last edited by BritBull; Jul 19th 2006 at 8:12 pm.
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 8:56 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by bfg69bug
you think that 1000€ rents are uncoman anywhere else apart from amdrid ? yes you can get cheap rents on the costa del sol, but you are looking on maybe 850 / 900 a month for a 2 bed flat anwhere from the coast as far inland as alhaurin.


i have no idea why anyone thinks that 50,000€ is not going to get them a very good life ! 4170€ a month, assuming that it is after tax ? a THOUSAND a week??? you could eat out for every meal, do nothing in your house apart from sleep.. and STILL struggle to spend 1000€ a week !


just think. average fone bill, 150€/month. gas, maybe 2 bottles at 25€. electric maybe 70€ a month, rent, around 1000€ a month. so average that at 1225€ a month. food, say 100€ a week.. thats 1625€ ...where are you really going to spend the other 2545€ EVERY month !?!?!!??!?!


oh dear god to be rich
Interesting post but you missed out the car costs?? I am curious as to what the minimum on which one could live comfortably in Spain would be, having no rent or mortgage. If my income came from the Uk and I paid UK tax then is one exempt from Spanish tax?? As to being rich.. well you would always spend up to your income bfg...having been very poor...you know even walking to save a bus fare.....interspersed with periods of affluence, when one has money one just raises standards...youy start looking at material items, holidays etc etc that you would never have paid any notice previously. Being able to be generous with friends and family who were in your days of poverty is a bonus. It is very easy to spend up...it's cutting back that's so difficult!!!!!
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Old Jul 19th 2006, 10:20 pm
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by poollounger
Interesting post but you missed out the car costs?? I am curious as to what the minimum on which one could live comfortably in Spain would be, having no rent or mortgage. If my income came from the Uk and I paid UK tax then is one exempt from Spanish tax?? As to being rich.. well you would always spend up to your income bfg...having been very poor...you know even walking to save a bus fare.....interspersed with periods of affluence, when one has money one just raises standards...youy start looking at material items, holidays etc etc that you would never have paid any notice previously. Being able to be generous with friends and family who were in your days of poverty is a bonus. It is very easy to spend up...it's cutting back that's so difficult!!!!!
If you are a resident in Spain then your taxes are due in Spain, unless you have a Civil Service pension and that is taxed in the UK. If you're income comes from the UK, then it is still taxed in Spain whatever you've been told. You should de register in the UK to avoid double taxation. Also your worldwide assets are subject to wealth tax at 0.5%. That includes houses in the UK / Spain, investments, bank accounts, cars, the lot. How they would find out about a lot of these things though, I have no idea

Over the last year the subject of "what can I live on" has come up on various forums and if you are retired with no mortgage away from the cities the average seems to be around 14000 - 15000 euros pa. Having done the figures on numerous occasions that seems to be about right. But of course the more you earn the more you get taxed and theres a big difference between earning 15000 euros a year retired with no mortgage with the allowances, against earning 50k euros a year at 45% tax! with a mortgage and a family to support.
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Old Jul 20th 2006, 4:19 am
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

BritBull, when I said "The 50k is before tax" I was not referring to you.

BritBull, I think you have done the income tax calculations wrong. The income tax rates in spain are on the sliding scale which you stated. However, this means that out of the 50k only 50,000-45000= 5000 euros is tax at 45%. The rest would be tax on the lower rates.

However, if I included tax allowances,
personal (3400*2 because I am married) + child (1400) = 8200

50000-8200 = 41800 taxable income

So, I would pay 600 tax (15%) on first 4000 income + 2352 tax (24%) on next 9800 income + 3360 tax (28%) on next 12000 income + 5920 tax (37%) on remaining 16000 = 12232 euros in tax in total.

My overall tax rate is therefore 24.5% from original 50000 euros income. The would leave about 37750 euros after tax or 3145 euros per month.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the personal allowance of 3400*2 because I am married.
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Old Jul 20th 2006, 4:34 am
  #29  
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

Originally Posted by ghost2006
BritBull, when I said "The 50k is before tax" I was not referring to you.

BritBull, I think you have done the income tax calculations wrong. The income tax rates in spain are on the sliding scale which you stated. However, this means that out of the 50k only 50,000-45000= 5000 euros is tax at 45%. The rest would be tax on the lower rates.

However, if I included tax allowances,
personal (3400*2 because I am married) + child (1400) = 8200

50000-8200 = 41800 taxable income

So, I would pay 600 tax (15%) on first 4000 income + 2352 tax (24%) on next 9800 income + 3360 tax (28%) on next 12000 income + 5920 tax (37%) on remaining 16000 = 12232 euros in tax in total.

My overall tax rate is therefore 24.5% from original 50000 euros income. The would leave about 37750 euros after tax or 3145 euros per month.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the personal allowance of 3400*2 because I am married.
I think your numbers look about right but also cannot find anything to indicate whether you are permitted to file as a couple and get double the allowance.

You might want to check on any double taxation agreement with your home country and check what sort of impact the Spanish wealth tax will have on you as I believe it drags in your global assets if you are resident.
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Old Jul 20th 2006, 9:02 am
  #30  
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Default Re: cost of living in spain

so everyone thinks that 3100€ +/- per month AFTER tax would be difficult to live on ???

wow.. i really wanna visit your planet some time

ghost2006my insurance is 650€ +/- per year, but i am 24 and its a group 5 car. i know older people (45+) only paying 200€ fully comprehensive. it really depends on your age and the type of car. fuel is around €1.10 a litre. road tax uner 100€ a year.
i hope that answers some of your questions.
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