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Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Hello everyone,
I completed an English Literature degree (3 yrs) then did a PGCE. (1 yr) Also I finished my QTS and began working as a secondary school teacher in England. A few years later, I moved to Spain:) and began the process of convalidating my studies. I combined my English Literature degree with my PGCE and applied for the licenciatura en filosofÃa inglesa (4 year degree). The ministry of education in Madrid wrote back confirming in order to complete my convalidation I would have to do 3 subjects; History of the English language ( I completed it and passed) Literatura Española siglo XX ( Im studying for my exam at the moment and finally Lengua Española ( I haven´t started but I hope to take the exam once Ive finished the other Spanish subject) Hopefully I will have finished my studies at the end of the year. In order to do my oposciones (civil service exams) I have to do a Masters in Education (CAP) however I was hoping if someone could give me any information; has anyone convalidated their PGCE and QTS for the CAP? Despite completing everything necessary in order to be a teacher, things are very difficult to get started in a public school. You need a CAP to teach in secondary schools, I find it frustrating even though I have the qualification in England, I have to start all over again and pay 1500-2000 euros to do the Masters. Has anyone encountered this problem? I would appreciate any feedback. Many thanks in advance. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.
BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums. I see that you have started to post in the Spain forum and hopefully you will gain some answers there. As your above post only really pertains to Spain I will move this one over for you to save you from repeating yourself. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by Chickpea
(Post 10877015)
Has anyone encountered this problem? Your problem is so specific that I doubt anyone else has encountered it Spanish degrees actually are 5 years long rather than the 3 year UK ones, so often you must complete additional modules to get it validated. And the masters is in the Spanish curruculum and teaching methods, which are again different to the UK, so I am not surprised that you need to do that course too. There is no good news for teachers at the moment I am afraid as 10,000s have been laid off over the past few years, and they are allowing class sizes to grow, but I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully things will look at bit better by the time you are fully trained and you have the big advantage of being bilingual which will help you get a place in the many bilingual public schools |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Thank you for your reply.
I would like to say that Spanish degrees have changed to a four year course. As I mentioned in my original post, I am currently completing the extra modules to gain a Spanish degree. I only have to complete three extra modules;History of English, Spanish Literature and the Spanish language. I have completed 1 out of three and hope to finish the Spanish modules this year. Thank you anyway. :) |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by Chickpea
(Post 10877610)
I would like to say that Spanish degrees have changed to a four year course. . :) |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
From what I've read British degrees and qualifications are rarely accepted as like for like in Spain and in most cases mean either having to do further modules to get it approved as equivalent, or in some cases you need to retrain entirely.
Aside from the language problem, the unwillingness of Spanish employers to accept foreign qualification is the biggest barrier to a foreigner finding employment in Spain. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10878631)
From what I've read British degrees and qualifications are rarely accepted as like for like in Spain and in most cases mean either having to do further modules to get it approved as equivalent, or in some cases you need to retrain entirely.
Aside from the language problem, the unwillingness of Spanish employers to accept foreign qualification is the biggest barrier to a foreigner finding employment in Spain. http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u.../range/201-225 |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by agoreira
(Post 10878919)
Two of my Spanish friends are teachers here in UK, and I'm sure they never had the problems the OP and many other foreigners are facing. There are those here that tell us the reason is that the Spanish uni's are better, if you look at the list of best rated uni's around the world, you have to go to position 201 before you find a Spanish one. UK has loads there, three in the top ten alone.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u.../range/201-225 Technically all EU member states should honour another EU qualification as being acceptable in place of the other member state's equivalent. The UK always does this. Spain rarely does. Perhaps it is done on purpose to make it difficult for foreign professionals to take work in Spain and therefore leaving the job market open to their own graduates? |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
I don't know if this would be of any interest to the OP, but I seem to remember that some parts of Spain, (Madrid at least) foreign trained teachers are being accepted without opposiciones into its schools to teach languages. It might be worth looking at at least until the paperwork is sorted.
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Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10878936)
Perhaps it is done on purpose to make it difficult for foreign professionals to take work in Spain and therefore leaving the job market open to their own graduates? You can work for a private company in Spain with UK qualification with no problems. My UK degree was accepted without any trouble And I dont think anyone has said that Spanish universities are better than UK universities. They are not. However, the degrees tend to be longer and harder. And of course, the fees are much cheaper |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10879137)
No, I dont think so. You only need co-validation for a professional role e.g. law, medicine or architecture or for a public service role where you must take oposiciones. So they are assuring a level playing field for everyone
You can work for a private company in Spain with UK qualification with no problems. My UK degree was accepted without any trouble And I dont think anyone has said that Spanish universities are better than UK universities. They are not. However, the degrees tend to be longer and harder. And of course, the fees are much cheaper A student loan in the UK should be viewed as an income tax (according to my guru Martin Lewis). Repayments kick in when a certain level of earnings are reached as with higher rates of tax. But I think we have had this conversation before. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10879137)
No, I dont think so. You only need co-validation for a professional role e.g. law, medicine or architecture or for a public service role where you must take oposiciones. So they are assuring a level playing field for everyone
The fact Spain does not accept the British QTS as being equivalent to their own Qualified Teacher Status is potentially a violation of EU law. And I dont think anyone has said that Spanish universities are better than UK universities. They are not. However, the degrees tend to be longer and harder. And of course, the fees are much cheaper Just because Spanish degrees take longer to complete doesn't mean they're actually more challenging intellectually. In fact, Spain ranks much lower on the PISA test that the UK does, so if their compulsory education doesn't rank well than I see no evidence that their higher education is particularly good either. If anything the 5 year degree sounds like a money-making racket to keep the money rolling in from the government as long as possible. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10879178)
EU law states that a professional status in one EU country must be honoured in another, much like an EU driving licence must be converted like for like without the need for another driving test.
The fact Spain does not accept the British QTS as being equivalent to their own Qualified Teacher Status is potentially a violation of EU law. I know a lot of people like to run down the British higher education system, but I'd like to see some hard evidence that Spanish degrees are actually harder than British degrees. Just because Spanish degrees take longer to complete doesn't mean they're actually more challenging intellectually. In fact, Spain ranks much lower on the PISA test that the UK does, so if their compulsory education doesn't rank well than I see no evidence that their higher education is particularly good either. If anything the 5 year degree sounds like a money-making racket to keep the money rolling in from the government as long as possible. My brother and sisters-in law have 7 year engineering degrees from Spanish universities. They are highly sought after from companies all over the world. A 3 year UK degree cannot even compare and it would be absolutely stupid to covalidate a UK 3 year egineering degree with a 7 year Spanish one. Ditto, how can you covalidate a UK law degree with a Spanish law degree? UK law is about UK law, not Spanish law! The same for education. If you have a PGCE from the UK then you will know nothing about the Spanish curriculum and teaching methods. As for the UK student loan, correct, it equates to 9% extra income tax for graduates who earn over £21k. This actually sounds like a lot to me. It effectively means that the tax rate in the UK is 60% for those who earn over 40k i.e. 40% tax, 11% national insurance and 9% student loan. Earning over £40k a year is not a lot of money in London for example, you could barely afford to live in a 1-2 bed flat on that. There is a lot of Spain bashing on this site which is fine because for a lot of things, Spain deserves to be bashed, but many times the criticism is based on ignorance i.e. not fully understanding how or why things work the way they do. I think this is one of the major problems that an expat faces. Spain is not the UK, so the mental models that people build up from growing up and living in the UK do not work in Spain. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10879298)
My wife did 2 years at one of the top UK universities and 3 years in Spain, and the work was much easier in the UK, she got a 1st for all the subjects and said that a lot of it was what she had learnt in her first year of university in Spain. In Spain she had 35 hours of classes each week, in the UK she had 6 hours per week, so she got a job to fill the time in.
My brother and sisters-in law have 7 year engineering degrees from Spanish universities. They are highly sought after from companies all over the world. A 3 year UK degree cannot even compare and it would be absolutely stupid to covalidate a UK 3 year egineering degree with a 7 year Spanish one. Ditto, how can you covalidate a UK law degree with a Spanish law degree? UK law is about UK law, not Spanish law! The same for education. If you have a PGCE from the UK then you will know nothing about the Spanish curriculum and teaching methods. As for the UK student loan, correct, it equates to 9% extra income tax for graduates who earn over £21k. This actually sounds like a lot to me. It effectively means that the tax rate in the UK is 60% for those who earn over 40k i.e. 40% tax, 11% national insurance and 9% student loan. Earning over £40k a year is not a lot of money in London for example, you could barely afford to live in a 1-2 bed flat on that. There is a lot of Spain bashing on this site which is fine because for a lot of things, Spain deserves to be bashed, but many times the criticism is based on ignorance i.e. not fully understanding how or why things work the way they do. I think this is one of the major problems that an expat faces. Spain is not the UK, so the mental models that people build up from growing up and living in the UK do not work in Spain. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtables/sl3.pdf On a wage of 403 pounds a week the weekly payment of the student loan will be 7 pounds a week, or put another way 2 lattes from Starbucks, or a McDonalds burger and Me Flurry. If you earn 1181 pounds a WEEK you will pay back 77 pound a week. Which equates to a meal out for 2 in a not exactly luxurious restaurant. Not forgetting for the person who earns 1181 a week, it is probably because the did go to uni. that they are in that wage bracket. And considering the number of graduates who are unemployed, you would have to be a real mean spirited moaner to feel hard done by at having to pay 77 quid a week, when it is weighed up against the advantages that were gained through uni. And isn´t it only fair that those who can earn larger salaries through having gone to uni, should pay for it themselves? And it is not as if the money has to be paid up front is it? Adding the national ins payment into the equation is misleading (but you know that already) because it has to be paid by every worker and not just ones paying back student loans |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10879298)
My wife did 2 years at one of the top UK universities and 3 years in Spain, and the work was much easier in the UK, she got a 1st for all the subjects and said that a lot of it was what she had learnt in her first year of university in Spain. In Spain she had 35 hours of classes each week, in the UK she had 6 hours per week, so she got a job to fill the time in.
My brother and sisters-in law have 7 year engineering degrees from Spanish universities. They are highly sought after from companies all over the world. A 3 year UK degree cannot even compare and it would be absolutely stupid to covalidate a UK 3 year egineering degree with a 7 year Spanish one. Ditto, how can you covalidate a UK law degree with a Spanish law degree? UK law is about UK law, not Spanish law! The same for education. If you have a PGCE from the UK then you will know nothing about the Spanish curriculum and teaching methods. Surely you would think that if Spanish higher education is much more rigorous than British higher education, then Spanish compulsory education would be much more rigorous than British compulsory education? Furthermore, if Spanish higher education is so much better, then why is it Oxford and Cambridge that are widely considered the gold standard in higher education and not Madrid Complutense and Salamanca? Why are foreign students practically queuing up for a place in British universities and not Spanish universities? My brother and sisters-in law have 7 year engineering degrees from Spanish universities. They are highly sought after from companies all over the world. A 3 year UK degree cannot even compare and it would be absolutely stupid to covalidate a UK 3 year egineering degree with a 7 year Spanish one. Ditto, how can you covalidate a UK law degree with a Spanish law degree? UK law is about UK law, not Spanish law! The same for education. If you have a PGCE from the UK then you will know nothing about the Spanish curriculum and teaching methods. The UK, keen to enforce EU law as ever, always accepts QTS status from other EU nations with no problem. Furthermore, a lawyer admitted to the bar in any other EU state can practice in the UK and any other EU nation. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10881994)
Why are foreign students practically queuing up for a place in British universities and not Spanish universities?
You are stating your opinion, not EU law. All professional statuses attained in one EU nation MUST be recognised by the other. The UK, keen to enforce EU law as ever, always accepts QTS status from other EU nations with no problem. Furthermore, a lawyer admitted to the bar in any other EU state can practice in the UK and any other EU nation. But, Spanish universities are a good option, especially if they are well known in their field. Basically because they are cheaper, and you get to enjoy Spain in the process. If you have a good degree from a Spanish unversity and speak fluent English and Spanish then the world is your oyster. The only problem may be if you want to be a research scientist because few Spanish universities have the budgets, although that could change again in 5-10 years time As for EU law, I am not an employment lawyer, but a Spanish engineering graduate is not equivant to a UK one. Although I think the Plan de Bolonia again looks to redress this and nowadays any Spaniard with a 5-7 year degree is given a Masters rather than a Bachelor degree |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10882033)
I am saying Spanish degrees are often harder than UK degrees. That does not mean that they are better! Of course they are not better. Spanish universities are very under-funded and students get very little individual support from tutors and research funding is almost non-existent
But, Spanish universities are a good option, especially if they are well known in their field. Basically because they are cheaper, and you get to enjoy Spain in the process. If you have a good degree from a Spanish unversity and speak fluent English and Spanish then the world is your oyster. The only problem may be if you want to be a research scientist because few Spanish universities have the budgets, although that could change again in 5-10 years time As for EU law, I am not an employment lawyer, but a Spanish engineering graduate is not equivant to a UK one. Although I think the Plan de Bolonia again looks to redress this and nowadays any Spaniard with a 5-7 year degree is given a Masters rather than a Bachelor degree British universities suffer from similar problems that you describe Spanish universities as having. Huge lectures and poor support from lecturers. This is compounded by the fact that the actual number of hours in class are very low, so most of the time students are expected to effectively self-study concepts. At £9,000 a year, British universities offer poor value for money in my opinion. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Furthermore, as you rightly state, the effective tax rate on graduates will be 60%, which makes it even harder to earn a decent salary from British degree.
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Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by Chickpea
(Post 10877015)
Hello everyone,
I completed an English Literature degree (3 yrs) then did a PGCE. (1 yr) Also I finished my QTS and began working as a secondary school teacher in England. A few years later, I moved to Spain:) and began the process of convalidating my studies. I combined my English Literature degree with my PGCE and applied for the licenciatura en filosofÃa inglesa (4 year degree). The ministry of education in Madrid wrote back confirming in order to complete my convalidation I would have to do 3 subjects; History of the English language ( I completed it and passed) Literatura Española siglo XX ( Im studying for my exam at the moment and finally Lengua Española ( I haven´t started but I hope to take the exam once Ive finished the other Spanish subject) Hopefully I will have finished my studies at the end of the year. In order to do my oposciones (civil service exams) I have to do a Masters in Education (CAP) however I was hoping if someone could give me any information; has anyone convalidated their PGCE and QTS for the CAP? Despite completing everything necessary in order to be a teacher, things are very difficult to get started in a public school. You need a CAP to teach in secondary schools, I find it frustrating even though I have the qualification in England, I have to start all over again and pay 1500-2000 euros to do the Masters. Has anyone encountered this problem? I would appreciate any feedback. Many thanks in advance. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Spain doesn't have one university in the worlds top 100 rankings so they can't have a very good reputation overseas!
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Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by jackytoo
(Post 10882072)
Spain doesn't have one university in the worlds top 100 rankings so they can't have a very good reputation overseas!
But this does not have to be a barrier to employment. My wife had a very good job in London with a Spanish degree. Being bi or trilingual and having a degree from any university in Europe is very appealing for employers I have a very good degree from one of the best UK universities, but what made my CV stand out as a graduate is that when my degree finished I went to Spain to learn Spanish and took an internship at a Spanish insurance company. Nowadays you dont get any job on academic results alone. Employers want people with initiative |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
I did a year student exchange in Sevilla and worked in a bank during holidays. All arranged by the University. They organise it better now with Erasmus etc. We were mainly ignored and at the bank was only given filing, post etc.:sneaky: I learnt more by having a Spanish boyfriend :rofl:
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Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by jackytoo
(Post 10883081)
I did a year student exchange in Sevilla and worked in a bank during holidays. All arranged by the University. They organise it better now with Erasmus etc. We were mainly ignored and at the bank was only given filing, post etc.:sneaky: I learnt more by having a Spanish boyfriend :rofl:
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Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10883028)
On the purely academic front, no
But this does not have to be a barrier to employment. My wife had a very good job in London with a Spanish degree. Being bi or trilingual and having a degree from any university in Europe is very appealing for employers I have a very good degree from one of the best UK universities, but what made my CV stand out as a graduate is that when my degree finished I went to Spain to learn Spanish and took an internship at a Spanish insurance company. Nowadays you dont get any job on academic results alone. Employers want people with initiative It could be due to the rankings having an Anglophone world bias, but that said there are still some non-Anglophone universities that rank in the world top 100. According to The Times ranking, the non-Anglophone countries which have at least one university in the top 100 are: Switzerland, Japan, Sweden, China, Germany, South Korea, Belgium, France and the Netherlands. In fact, the Times don't even rank any Spanish university in the top 200. |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10883431)
Earlier on you were insisting that Spanish degrees are much more academically rigorous than British degrees, so why don't the university rankings reflect this?
It could be due to the rankings having an Anglophone world bias, but that said there are still some non-Anglophone universities that rank in the world top 100. According to The Times ranking, the non-Anglophone countries which have at least one university in the top 100 are: Switzerland, Japan, Sweden, China, Germany, South Korea, Belgium, France and the Netherlands. In fact, the Times don't even rank any Spanish university in the top 200. They gets lots of points in the ranking for providing support for students, producing original research, worrying about student welfare, having schemes to help ethnic minoties or low income families, having good quality accommodation, and having low drop out rates, the % students with a job after graduating, % students with a high earning job after graduating, providing career advice, having links to industry etc. On all of the above a Spanish university would get very few points, possibly none! Spanish universities teach to a mass of students and a massive proportion fail each year. This is bad for the majority of students but the creme de la creme do rise to the top When I went to Sheffield University in the late 90s it was ranked number 1 in the Guardian league table, even above Oxford and Cambridge, I think it was because they had lots of cool bars and a great student union ;) but 10 years later and they had dropped 25 places. I doubt that the actual university has changed, but the ranking system probably has |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10882061)
Furthermore, as you rightly state, the effective tax rate on graduates will be 60%, which makes it even harder to earn a decent salary from British degree.
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Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Hi. I may have missed something but in case I haven't, I will add my tuppence worth.
After many years I have finally got myself ready to ask for the professional recognition in Spain of my qualifications and experience as a teacher. I am planning to go to hand all of my many bits of paper to the junta tomorrow. I will be submitting a modelo de solicitud de reconocimiento de titulos obtenidos en la Union Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la directiva 2005/36/CE. As far as I am aware, there is no cost to this. I am under no illusions that this piece of paper that I will hopefully receive will make it easy to present myself for oposiciones, but I do think that it may help me to work in a concertado in the future. Obviously anyone hoping to make it through oposiciones needs to have as many qualifications as possible recognised, but if I understood correctly, the question was about being able to work as a teacher, and in theory, this piece of paper may do it for me! I was intending to ask for a grado at the level of licenciatura as well, but I am reconsidering this as it costs 93 euros, and I'm not sure that I will make use of it. There is no way that I would ever ask for a named degree as I am not prepared to undertake any further undergraduate studies. I hope that this post has answered your question - yes EU law says that Spain must accept all EU teaching qualifications, and yes, as far as I am aware, Spain does so. I think the problem is that so few people have been through this process, that there is a lot of misinformation out there which confuses us. PS: in case it is at all relevant - all masters are convalidated with a Spanish university (not the Department of Education) and it is your responsibility to find a uni that offers an identical masters (I have considered doing this as well). |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by RacheyBabes
(Post 10958057)
Hi. I may have missed something but in case I haven't, I will add my tuppence worth.
After many years I have finally got myself ready to ask for the professional recognition in Spain of my qualifications and experience as a teacher. I am planning to go to hand all of my many bits of paper to the junta tomorrow. I will be submitting a modelo de solicitud de reconocimiento de titulos obtenidos en la Union Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la directiva 2005/36/CE. As far as I am aware, there is no cost to this. I am under no illusions that this piece of paper that I will hopefully receive will make it easy to present myself for oposiciones, but I do think that it may help me to work in a concertado in the future. Obviously anyone hoping to make it through oposiciones needs to have as many qualifications as possible recognised, but if I understood correctly, the question was about being able to work as a teacher, and in theory, this piece of paper may do it for me! I was intending to ask for a grado at the level of licenciatura as well, but I am reconsidering this as it costs 93 euros, and I'm not sure that I will make use of it. There is no way that I would ever ask for a named degree as I am not prepared to undertake any further undergraduate studies. I hope that this post has answered your question - yes EU law says that Spain must accept all EU teaching qualifications, and yes, as far as I am aware, Spain does so. I think the problem is that so few people have been through this process, that there is a lot of misinformation out there which confuses us. PS: in case it is at all relevant - all masters are convalidated with a Spanish university (not the Department of Education) and it is your responsibility to find a uni that offers an identical masters (I have considered doing this as well). BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Heyho everyone. I'm currently doing a PGCE in English back in the UK, but have taught in Spain for 4 years and plan to return next year. Girlfriend, weather, I'm sure you've all been through the same process.
Anyway, I want to know what the deal is with private schools. I understand that working in the state sector is very difficult, and might be something for the future, but all I have read so far here is that private schools would bypass a lot of red tape. How much exactly? Would I, with a PGCE and 4 years experience of English teaching in private language academies, get work relatively easily? Or, failing that, would I have a cat in hell's chance? Thanks in advance for the information!:fingerscrossed: |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by grandwazzoo
(Post 10958558)
Heyho everyone. I'm currently doing a PGCE in English back in the UK, but have taught in Spain for 4 years and plan to return next year. Girlfriend, weather, I'm sure you've all been through the same process.
Anyway, I want to know what the deal is with private schools. I understand that working in the state sector is very difficult, and might be something for the future, but all I have read so far here is that private schools would bypass a lot of red tape. How much exactly? Would I, with a PGCE and 4 years experience of English teaching in private language academies, get work relatively easily? Or, failing that, would I have a cat in hell's chance? Thanks in advance for the information!:fingerscrossed: BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot
(Post 10878631)
From what I've read British degrees and qualifications are rarely accepted as like for like in Spain and in most cases mean either having to do further modules to get it approved as equivalent, or in some cases you need to retrain entirely.
My argument principally is that if Spain has signed up to EU agreements on qualifications, then like it or not they are bound to respect them. I would dearly like to know if there are more people out there who had similar problems, and how they have overcome them - or not, as may be the case! Thanks in advance |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by theror
(Post 11234127)
Yes, I agree, but what you have posted is not helpful. I am interested in doing the "Traductor Jurado" exams and will undoubtedly have the same problem "convalidating" ( surely shome mishtake) my qualifications. I have a degree and PGCE and have no intention, like Chickpea above, of studying Spanish Language ("Lengua") or wasting time on other senseless subjects in order to achieve this.
My argument principally is that if Spain has signed up to EU agreements on qualifications, then like it or not they are bound to respect them. I would dearly like to know if there are more people out there who had similar problems, and how they have overcome them - or not, as may be the case! Thanks in advance
Originally Posted by RacheyBabes
(Post 10958057)
Hi. I may have missed something but in case I haven't, I will add my tuppence worth.
After many years I have finally got myself ready to ask for the professional recognition in Spain of my qualifications and experience as a teacher. I am planning to go to hand all of my many bits of paper to the junta tomorrow. I will be submitting a modelo de solicitud de reconocimiento de titulos obtenidos en la Union Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la directiva 2005/36/CE. As far as I am aware, there is no cost to this. I am under no illusions that this piece of paper that I will hopefully receive will make it easy to present myself for oposiciones, but I do think that it may help me to work in a concertado in the future. Obviously anyone hoping to make it through oposiciones needs to have as many qualifications as possible recognised, but if I understood correctly, the question was about being able to work as a teacher, and in theory, this piece of paper may do it for me! I was intending to ask for a grado at the level of licenciatura as well, but I am reconsidering this as it costs 93 euros, and I'm not sure that I will make use of it. There is no way that I would ever ask for a named degree as I am not prepared to undertake any further undergraduate studies. I hope that this post has answered your question - yes EU law says that Spain must accept all EU teaching qualifications, and yes, as far as I am aware, Spain does so. I think the problem is that so few people have been through this process, that there is a lot of misinformation out there which confuses us. PS: in case it is at all relevant - all masters are convalidated with a Spanish university (not the Department of Education) and it is your responsibility to find a uni that offers an identical masters (I have considered doing this as well). Very interesting and helpful post. I am thinking of going in for the Traductor Jurado exams and wasn't even aware of this "solicitud". How did you get on, BTW? |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by theror
(Post 11234127)
Yes, I agree, but what you have posted is not helpful. I am interested in doing the "Traductor Jurado" exams and will undoubtedly have the same problem "convalidating" ( surely shome mishtake) my qualifications. I have a degree and PGCE and have no intention, like Chickpea above, of studying Spanish Language ("Lengua") or wasting time on other senseless subjects in order to achieve this.
My argument principally is that if Spain has signed up to EU agreements on qualifications, then like it or not they are bound to respect them. I would dearly like to know if there are more people out there who had similar problems, and how they have overcome them - or not, as may be the case! Thanks in advance BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Hi there,
I have a very similar situation. I am Spanish though, but I have done the PGCE over here and now I am thinking of moving back to Spain so I am trying to get it recognised through "Reconocimiento de TÃtulos obtenidos en la Unión Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la Directiva 2005/36/CE" as has been mentioned here. All I wanted to know is if anyone has been accepted or declined in this process since not many people seem to know much about it. Many thanks, |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Hi everyone,
I am Spanish and I have done the PGCE in England and worked in state school here for 5 years. I now want to move back to Spain but I need to get my PGCE recognised by Reconocimiento de TÃtulos obtenidos en la Unión Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la Directiva 2005/36/CE. Has anyone managed to get it recognised or are there too many problems to get this? I do not want to do the Master CAP which is no where near as good as the PGCE. Any experiencies, positive or negative? Thanks! |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst BEVS moderates Europe. Moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.
Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by MARTA SERRANO
(Post 11424373)
Hi everyone,
I am Spanish and I have done the PGCE in England and worked in state school here for 5 years. I now want to move back to Spain but I need to get my PGCE recognised by Reconocimiento de TÃtulos obtenidos en la Unión Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la Directiva 2005/36/CE. Has anyone managed to get it recognised or are there too many problems to get this? I do not want to do the Master CAP which is no where near as good as the PGCE. Any experiencies, positive or negative? Thanks! I am very much in the same situation as yourself. I did a PGCE course in England years ago, and completed my BA at an American Uni. I have visited the local branch of the Ministry of Education a few times in the last couple of months to see if they could bring some light into this. In my particular case, Reconocimiento de TÃtulos obtenidos en la Unión Europea para el ejercicio de las profesiones reguladas por la Directiva 2005/36/CE seems to be the only pathway worth trying, as getting both my BA and PGCE course validated on an individual basis will most likely prove next to impossible. Yesterday, during my last visit I was told about the case of an Australian teacher who managed to get professional recognition in Spain recently. Yet, there seems to be a lot of confussion among civil servants at the MEC about the procedure to follow, as I was told last week that I needed to contact the UK National Contact Point for Professional Qualifications (teaching is a regulated profession in Spain). I contacted them to request a certificate of experience. Well, according to the NCP coordinator, they are not allowed to provide certificates of experience for educators... Back to the Ministerio. Yesterday, I was told I needed to contact the UK-NARIC this time, as they could certainly provide me with an "accreditation for my teaching credentials"(?)... I contacted the UK-NARIC about half-an-hour ago... they cannot do such thing. All they do is to establish the comparability of UK courses and foreign qualifications (but, tuns out, my PGCE course is indeed an English qualification...) It is true that, as mentioned above by another user, "a professional status in one EU country must be honoured in another". Under any circumstances should a PGCE holder be required to complete the current Master de Educacion in Spain (Spaniards who completed the previous teaching qualification known as "CAP", are given QTS in England in a matter of weeks) Has any of you been granted professional recognition in the end? Apparently, once this has been accomplished, we should be eligible to register for civil service exams. No restrictions of any sort apply. Thanks |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by victormb
(Post 11637561)
Hi Marta (and everyone else):
I am very much in the same situation as yourself. I did a PGCE course in England years ago, and completed my BA at an American Uni. Has any of you been granted professional recognition in the end? Apparently, once this has been accomplished, we should be eligible to register for civil service exams. No restrictions of any sort apply. Thanks Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Hey Chickpea
I m a teacher of French and Spanish and did a PGCE in 1998 . IN 2010 , i MANAGED TO GET A Professional RECOGNITION OF MY pgce which means i didin t have to do a Masters . The process took less than 5 MONTHS . you have to ask for reconocimiento profesional . But you have to have completed your QTS in Englqnd , Eddy |
Re: Convalidating a PGCE-QTS Spain
Originally Posted by eddyverdy
(Post 11674349)
Hey Chickpea
I m a teacher of French and Spanish and did a PGCE in 1998 . IN 2010 , i MANAGED TO GET A Professional RECOGNITION OF MY pgce which means i didin t have to do a Masters . The process took less than 5 MONTHS . you have to ask for reconocimiento profesional . But you have to have completed your QTS in Englqnd , Eddy Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums. Please let me know if you need any further help. Rosemary |
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