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Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Old May 17th 2007, 11:06 am
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Default Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Hi,

I am looking to generate some posative feedback between expat tradesmen living in Granada Province.

I myself have lived and worked here for the past 2 years now, specialising in design, supply and installation of kitchens, bedrooms, bathrooms and general associated interior work, having had a background of this in the UK, including a showroom for several years.

I would like to make contact with other tradesmen in all fields of expertise within the province, to share experiences, contacts and work opportunities.

We all know that alot of British “builders” generate bad publicity throughout Spain, but we also know that not everyone should be tarred with the same brush. I for example, stick within the parameters of my own expertise and bring in additional tradesmen for the work I’m not qualified to undertake, working with both British and Spanish tradesmen.

It will also be a good opportunity to share experiences and knowledge of suppliers in the province, where to get the best prices and who has the best products.

So let’s get some dialog going and show other expats that we are around, we can be trusted and share our experiences and stories for all to see.

Heath

PS to site moderator - I am not soliciting for business with this posting, but meerly looking to create a thread for other tradesmen to exchange contacts and share knowledge and experience - thanks
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Old May 17th 2007, 11:47 am
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

It would be good to know where the Trademan are as well as when you go to a new place it is hard to find good ones.

Any in Marbella?
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Old May 17th 2007, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Originally Posted by heath1974
So let’s get some dialog going and show other expats that we are around, we can be trusted and share our experiences and stories for all to see. PS to site moderator - I am not soliciting for business with this posting, but meerly looking to create a thread for other tradesmen to exchange contacts and share knowledge and experience - thanks
good idea but its you saying YOU can be trusted etc etc - and isnt that the whole point, that there are "builders, tradesmen" out there telling us how good THEY are !!!!!!

dont get me wrong Heath, you are probably good at what you do and are a genuine guy but I think this kind of thread could be open to abuse by fake members telling us how great their builder called "so and so" is ( ie themselves )

Happy Friday
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Old May 17th 2007, 8:36 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Originally Posted by spain
good idea but its you saying YOU can be trusted etc etc - and isnt that the whole point, that there are "builders, tradesmen" out there telling us how good THEY are !!!!!!

dont get me wrong Heath, you are probably good at what you do and are a genuine guy but I think this kind of thread could be open to abuse by fake members telling us how great their builder called "so and so" is ( ie themselves )

Happy Friday
I think there was a thread like this a little while ago ?
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Old May 17th 2007, 9:43 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Originally Posted by spain
good idea but its you saying YOU can be trusted etc etc - and isnt that the whole point, that there are "builders, tradesmen" out there telling us how good THEY are !!!!!!

dont get me wrong Heath, you are probably good at what you do and are a genuine guy but I think this kind of thread could be open to abuse by fake members telling us how great their builder called "so and so" is ( ie themselves )

Happy Friday
Totally understand your point there about the possibility of abuse. The aim here though is for tradesmen to get in contact with each other and share their knowledge, experiences and contacts.

I would always suggest to anyone seeking the work of any tradesman, to get references, ideally from people you know yourself and if possible, see previous work. Good rule of thumb both here or anywhere in the world

I also myself have experience, here and in the UK of having employed people who claim to be a "tradesman" but it soon becomes apparent they are'nt. It's a shame and they only end up making a fool of themselves. Frustrating also when you've set them to work in good faith.

For anyone to contact a "tradesmen" for work they need doing from this or other forums, then so long as you check them and their work out first, you should be ok. For my own part, I've never had work that's come directly from a forum. I have had people I've met via forums like this, who have got to know me, then passed work on to me, but by then they've met me in the flesh and know who the real me is and not just the "virtual" me is.

However, to repeat, this thread is aimed towards tradesment getting in contact with each other. It's not intended for people to solicit for business and I'm sure the moderators in their wisdom know the difference. Tradesmen talking to other tradesmen. Always a good thing as I'm sure you'll agree, especially if you've ever organised a job with multiple tradesmen who all work independantly of one-another :curse:
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Old May 17th 2007, 9:49 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Just thought I would add...

It's fellow tradesmen in Granada Province, but also possibly Jaen and Cordoba I'm looking to get involved here.

Although the expat population is growing steadily inland, it's not as heavily populated as the "Costa" and therefore why I thought it would be nice for those of us living rurally to get to know each other

It's also probably handy for tradesmen planning to move to the area to have a thread like this, so that they can find out how others have got on after they've made a move here. After all, when I first came here, I had my ability, but no real local knowledge.

Last edited by heath1974; May 17th 2007 at 9:55 pm.
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Old May 17th 2007, 9:53 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

My experience is that using British tradesmen over here is to be avoided as they are more expensive by far.

I saved 50% on recent building work undertaken by using Spanish Tradesmen rather than a Brit. I think they apply a popular pricing policy ...... meaning its very popular with them
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Old May 17th 2007, 10:05 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

I'm going down that route now, I get the materials and then pay the tradesman the going rate, I've just taken 4 grand off my bill that a Brit quoted. Since he uses Spanish trademen anyway and pays them the daily rate and send his kids to private school, I thought I would save the money for myself.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
My experience is that using British tradesmen over here is to be avoided as they are more expensive by far.

I saved 50% on recent building work undertaken by using Spanish Tradesmen rather than a Brit. I think they apply a popular pricing policy ...... meaning its very popular with them
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Old May 17th 2007, 10:12 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Originally Posted by Mercedes
I'm going down that route now, I get the materials and then pay the tradesman the going rate, I've just taken 4 grand off my bill that a Brit quoted. Since he uses Spanish trademen anyway and pays them the daily rate and send his kids to private school, I thought I would save the money for myself.
I have to tell you I saved 9k and I was shocked. They have done an excellent job, turned up when they should, and to be honest I feel better about it!!
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Old May 17th 2007, 10:23 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Not untrue. Of the tradesmen I've worked with, I would say it's a 50/50 split of British and Spanish.

Pricing is a problem and some prices that I see people quote are unbelieveably high. Some quote very "British" prices, which given the significantly lower cost generally of materials and lower cost of living, is quite perplexing. Like in any project one might undertake, it's always best to get more than the one quote. I've also seen the same however of a few Spanish tradesmen looking to make a killing from the "rico ingles". Buying materials direct from a supplier is something I take clients to do, they also benefit from discounts negotiated.

I think that part of the problem is also the language barrier. You could argue that people say that Spanish tradesmen are problematic, however as you and I know, it's more to do with "lost in translation". Some feel more comfortable hearing an English voice, which blinkers them to whether the tradesman is actually any good or not.

Having integrated into a rural area, I am actually reliant on Spanish assistance and suppliers. They help me and I help them. I have worked with Spanish tradesmen who have got contracts with Brits and as well as doing part of the work, have been the designated translator. They have also learned a great deal from me and likewise I from them.
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Old May 17th 2007, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

What is the going daily rate for a tradesman as I've heard anything from 9 euros an hour if you go to them direct or 14 euros through a builder or some are paying 125 euros a day per person. It would be nice to know what the norm is. I don't want to pay over the odds, but then again I don't want to squeeze them either, I would rather be fair.

Originally Posted by heath1974
Not untrue. Of the tradesmen I've worked with, I would say it's a 50/50 split of British and Spanish.

Pricing is a problem and some prices that I see people quote are unbelieveably high. Some quote very "British" prices, which given the significantly lower cost generally of materials and lower cost of living, is quite perplexing. Like in any project one might undertake, it's always best to get more than the one quote. I've also seen the same however of a few Spanish tradesmen looking to make a killing from the "rico ingles". Buying materials direct from a supplier is something I take clients to do, they also benefit from discounts negotiated.

I think that part of the problem is also the language barrier. You could argue that people say that Spanish tradesmen are problematic, however as you and I know, it's more to do with "lost in translation". Some feel more comfortable hearing an English voice, which blinkers them to whether the tradesman is actually any good or not.

Having integrated into a rural area, I am actually reliant on Spanish assistance and suppliers. They help me and I help them. I have worked with Spanish tradesmen who have got contracts with Brits and as well as doing part of the work, have been the designated translator. They have also learned a great deal from me and likewise I from them.
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Old May 18th 2007, 12:23 am
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

I posted a reply to a similar question in response to a guy looking to move over here who was a carpenter/joiner.

In response to his question, I suggested that down on the coast, I know English "chippies" who usually charge 120+ euros a day, but that I also know Spanish carpenters who are just as good, who work for 60 euros a day.

I suggested to him that he should be open minded about pricing, as I myself am, given that materials are generally far cheaper here and living costs are lower too.

In fairness, I would say that how good a price is depends on what's included in that price and you have to bear that in mind when making comparisons. If one tradesman is charging 100 euros a day for example, and is doing the work only, yet another is charging the same price but is sourcing materials and organising things on your behalf, you would have to say the latter is the best value for money. It's always worth asking what exactly they're going to do for their price.

120+ euros a day seems to be a common price for many tradesmen I encounter from the coast, when they've made contact with me about work. Unfortunately inland, it's hard to price this sort of cost into a job as usually the maximum I usually price as a day rate is 80 euros a day for myself. That is usually an 8 hour day, so 10 euros and hour.

Maybe I'm too cheap, but if i'm working a job out with a fixed and itemised price for the whole job, then realistically, I look to make a profit margin of 30%. This was how I worked in the UK and how I work here in Spain. Anyone in business will tell you that you should always look towards a margin of at least 30%, especially if it's goods and services you're providing.
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Old May 18th 2007, 1:33 am
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

My neighbour has had alot of building done and his guys work 12 hour days, and he is averaging probably 100 - 112 a day and that is on the coast in Marbella. It is good to know what the norm is though, as it does save you getting ripped off. I've got a builders yard up the road who deliver, so I don't have a problem in ordering the stuff if they tell me what they need. I think that is the cheapest option Unfortunately it takes time to find all these things out and often you pay over the odds before you realise, I think I did. I can even get a skip for 70 euros and it seems to stay for a week until the guy comes and empties it. Its all a learning curve. I've still got more work to be done so it could to know what I should be paying roughly.


Originally Posted by heath1974
I posted a reply to a similar question in response to a guy looking to move over here who was a carpenter/joiner.

In response to his question, I suggested that down on the coast, I know English "chippies" who usually charge 120+ euros a day, but that I also know Spanish carpenters who are just as good, who work for 60 euros a day.

I suggested to him that he should be open minded about pricing, as I myself am, given that materials are generally far cheaper here and living costs are lower too.

In fairness, I would say that how good a price is depends on what's included in that price and you have to bear that in mind when making comparisons. If one tradesman is charging 100 euros a day for example, and is doing the work only, yet another is charging the same price but is sourcing materials and organising things on your behalf, you would have to say the latter is the best value for money. It's always worth asking what exactly they're going to do for their price.

120+ euros a day seems to be a common price for many tradesmen I encounter from the coast, when they've made contact with me about work. Unfortunately inland, it's hard to price this sort of cost into a job as usually the maximum I usually price as a day rate is 80 euros a day for myself. That is usually an 8 hour day, so 10 euros and hour.

Maybe I'm too cheap, but if i'm working a job out with a fixed and itemised price for the whole job, then realistically, I look to make a profit margin of 30%. This was how I worked in the UK and how I work here in Spain. Anyone in business will tell you that you should always look towards a margin of at least 30%, especially if it's goods and services you're providing.
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Old May 18th 2007, 1:48 am
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

That seems a fair price for a skip, though you do have to be careful what you put in them. Some skip companies I've used inland can suddenly bump up the price to 200 euros if you put timber, metal and furniture items in there and not just building waste like bricks, plaster and cement.

It's always worth asking them first what they will accept in a skip for the price they're charging.

One thing I am aware of down on the coast is the high number of migrant eastern European workers. Obviously alot of these people work for far less than both Spanish or Northern European labour. This is mainly because alot of them are not in the "system", just like in the UK. Inland there tend to be alot of Romanian migrant workers. Mind you, I also know many British workers not in the system here either
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Old May 18th 2007, 3:22 am
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Default Re: Contact Between Tradesmen - Where Are You & What Do You Do?

Originally Posted by Mercedes
What is the going daily rate for a tradesman as I've heard anything from 9 euros an hour if you go to them direct or 14 euros through a builder or some are paying 125 euros a day per person. It would be nice to know what the norm is. I don't want to pay over the odds, but then again I don't want to squeeze them either, I would rather be fair.
I paid a good bricklayer 10 euros a day. The plasterer / tiler gets twelve.
The plumber was 380 euros for two days work (there were two of them here for one day and it included all the stuff he needed to plumb in a bathroom suite and boiler), the electrician was here for three days and it was an all in rate including the gear he needed (wiring, plugs/sockets/switches/trunking etc etc for 6 rooms) 1700 euros
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