fergusonsfolly

I have just bought a property in a small community.
We have a community handyman/gardener.
He has worked on the community for ten years - 5 days per week - 4 hours per day.
He has no written contract, does not receive a wage slip, gets paid cash at the end of each month.
A change in the community commitee is likely to decide to "dispense" with his services.
Does he have any rights regarding severance pay, period of notice, etc, which obviously would apply if he was "legitimately" employed ?

JLFS

It depends, if he was otherwise clean, as in not claiming any government help, he could have the community over a barrel.

They should have been paying his SS, because if he had a an accident, while working, there would have been big trouble.

Also it could get his back up if you dispence with his services, as he has not accumulated any rights to pension or whatever, and if he is otherwise clean, the community will be in bigger trouble than him, for the delito contra los derechos de los trabajadores.
Tricky

fergusonsfolly

Thanks JLFS,
Thats the way I was looking at .
However, the old community comittee have dismissed my concerns as "not knowing how things work in Spain".
In the event that there is some sort of claim from either the gardener or the authorities, who is liable ?
Is it the President and Treasurer only, as they have allowed the situation to occur?
Is it jointly all the residents ?
Would it include new residents - i.e. me, who has only been a resident for six months.?
It is our annual AGM this week (my first) - it should be an interesting session !

JLFS

The residents would not have a problem, their money was paid in to the fund and that was it.

The one who negociated the "terms" with the gardner, the one that paid him every month, they would be the ones with the problems.

But there are a number of things that would have to be explained, ie how was the gardner able to get paid in the black, because to do so, the treasurer must have been fiddling the books, so where did the money come from, and if that was done, could some funds been put into his own pocket as well.

If he goes without a fight, all well and good, it might have been to his advantage not to be legal.
If he was in the postiton of needing the work and accepted the job because he had no other option he might well be angry that after all this time he has been cheated out of his rights , and could kick up a big stink.

If he proves his case, that he was working, then he could be entitled to holiday pay, finiquito, and the back SS payments for the whole period.

There could be fines on top too.

In cases where there is an employee and employer in the dock over illegal employment, then the employer is nearly always treated far harsher than the worker, as it is understood that the worker sometimes finds it necessary to do so to earn a living, and he will get the sympathy vote, so to speak, whereas the employer does it mainly to save money.

Because his finiquito would have amounted to a large amount after 10 years, any back tax or whatever he was liable for would be covered and he would still have cash over, and he would be entitled to dole if you sacked him, so he has really got nothing to lose.

All this may be irrelevant, if he goes quietly.

Mitzyboy

I would say that if the Gardener gets any advice, he will probably find he is in a strong position ....... I'm guessing that a "redundancy" payment might be demanded

So, who's going to look after the garden and do the handyman work afterwards then, cos I'm guessing if it's sub contracted out it is going to cost them more

HBG

My wife used to interpret at some communities AGM, but she refuses to do it now. I went along on a couple of occasions and couldn't stop laughing at some of the antics, it was like a war cabinet briefing.

The last one ended in a fight between an elderly, fat German and an even fatter Spaniard. The argument was over sand being swept from one terrace to another.

On the example given, surely this should be dealt with by the administrators, not the committee?

Rotor

"redundancy" best offered before he goes for advice , wave some cash under his nose and get him sign a note that he will make no further claims , it may be worth nothing but may well stop him going looking for advice, then prey

JLFS

Good point, there has been some the of fiddle going on, with the hanbdyman being paid in the black and it begs th question how kosher are the accounts for the community?????? hmmmm???

and how come the treasure owns a Ferrari??

jdr

It will fall on the President as they are the only legal officer, they rule the roost, give out the orders and cop the flack if there are any problems.