Communal fees
 

I live on a complex that is residential but some of the residents who dont live on here but rent out over the summer and recieve good income from this dont pay their communal fees and are in arrears, due to this the other owners not only for last year but next have had an extra 500 euro's per year added to their communal fee's to offset this after the majority off other owners agreed to this in a meeting . Where do i stand on this legally as i dont agree ?

Re: Communal fees
 

It's not possible to know what the situation is with your community Richard, but from what you describe, it appears the community leadership has simply adopted the "easy route" of charging the excess to those who pay, rather than taking legal action against those who don't. This is typical in Mallorca.

The problem with any official legal action is that the results are highly unpredictable, even when there is overwhelming evidence that the person(s) being sued are indeed responsible. And the costs of litigation can be damned expensive.

I suggest that you start by bringing this up with the community leadership, requesting an explanation, in an attempt to get them into a discussion about it. If you take it to court, there's a 50-50 chance you could all get screwed, and if that happens, the community will see it as your fault, for stirring up trouble in the first place.

Take the diplomatic route first (and keep every record of it). And if that goes nowhere, simply refuse to pay it. You already know how they deal with non-payers.

Re: Communal fees
 

If it was agreed and passed at an official community meeting then I would say you are obliged to pay.
However the community has a variety of legal means open to them to take proceedings or enforce the payment from those in arrears, so I'm quite surprised the situation has been allowed to get to such a stage.
The extra payment does seem somewhat excessive,giving the impression that something is sadly wrong regarding how the community is being run.

Re: Communal fees
 

Agreed, something smelly about this one.

But it's not uncommon for such things to "smell funny" or even "stink like rotten fish" around here. Most are apathetic about it, and just do whatever they're told. Those that don't become the "troublemakers".

If you've been around here for any length of time Richard, then surely you know what I mean.

Re: Communal fees
 

We have the same problem here, I think its quite common but we've taken quite a different route to try and solve it.
A couple of years ago we held a meeting and sacked the entire committee that was supposed to run the urbo. They were all in the pocket of the guy who built most of the houses here and they did practically nothing with the money they collected from the few who did pay. In fact they gave most of it to the builder who sent a couple of guys round with strimmers twice a year. The rest went to the Gestor who was supposed to collect and administer the money.
The new committee sacked the gestor and appointed a new one. A crusade to get money from the non-payers began. First they posted all their names and addresses at the entrance to the Urbo. The committee visited those who owed most to ask why they wouldn't pay. That brought in quite a lot of money. Recently the Gestor has sent a list of those who still haven't paid to the local council so that the debt is registered against their property if they ever try to sell. 20% has been added to the amount they owe.
In the meantime a lawyer has been hired to take any owing over 1,000 euros to court. Not sure when those proceedings will take place.
It seems daft to increase the fees to those who do pay and take no action against those who don't. Surely that will just encourage everyone not to pay?

Re: Communal fees
 

I faced a similar situation a long time ago in Tenerife.
The then Pres. and his sidekicks were making money hand over fist running a letting business for holidaymakers and paying scant regard to the needs of the permanent residents.
I got a few like minded guys to myself together and helped get them turfed out and we turned the place around.

Best way is to get directly involved Richard.
As Am says there is generally far to much complacency and always some around who will take advantage of it.
Have a good look at the books and if there is a fair bit of discontent amongst other owners then get your heads together, talk to as many ppl as you can, put a circular around asking for support and put yourselves up for the committee.
Just out of curiosity, do you have a multi-national committee or are they all British or Spanish or Germans perhaps ?

Re: Communal fees
 

Best way is the one where you get people together, there should be some rule in your community that allows members to call an extraordinary meeting, which shouls let those of you who are unhappy with the fee rise to have your say, as these meetings can only deal with the specific buisness they have been called for you may need more than one, but the better way would seem to be to get rid of the management, we did that when we were there because they were all cronies of the president, he was German, but the German contigent didn't support him when a vote of no confidence was called. He was forced out, and a totally new committee was installed, they changed the management company, changed the gardening company etc. It did make a difference. It's really up to you to try and overcome the apathy that exists with many people just agreeing to things 'because that's how it's always been done'

Re: Communal fees
 

Two things should be happening.

1. Yes, of course the law abiding owners will have to pay more in the short to medium term. If gardening, cleaning and pool maintenance come to £20,000, there are 10 owners and 5 of them don't pay then the other 5 will have to pay £4,000 a year, instead of £2,000 if everyone played the game. Otherwise the pool gets emptied!

2. Legal action should be started ASAP against the non payers and surcharges added on. It should start early 'cos the wheels of Spanish law move slowly. We started action over a year ago and now we have a charge against the property and details of the debtor's spanish bank accounts. The debtors pay all costs when you get the money.

The other alternative is to hire www.elcobradordelfrac.com/ if you know the legal owner and their address in Spain. They are very effective!

Re: Communal fees
 

So if the worst comes to the worst and the debtors can't or won't pay,then can the property be seized by legal process through the Courts and then sold on in order to cover the debt and any balance retuned to the ex owner ?

Re: Communal fees
 

maybe

I've certainly heard of communities which have communal pools which have locked fences around them - if owners don't pay fees then locks are changed & the non-payers don't get a key...........

Re: Communal fees
 

2 problems with a sale:

1. Difficult to sell at any price at the moment.

2. If auctioned at a low price there may only be enough equity to cover the mortgage. None left over for other debts.

If the owner lives in UK it's easier as a debt incurred anywhere in Europe can be pursued under English law. Consult a UK Solicitor specialising in debt recovery.

In short cheating scumbags have an easy time of it in Spain. Probably best to just start gluing the door locks and hire a couple of heavies to go round...

Re: Communal fees
 

Well, you can do that - BUT i've been assured it's not legal to do so.

Anyway the debtor we have is not interested in the pool and would not be disadvantaged or annoyed by key withdrawal. Worth trying for those who rent out, though...

Re: Communal fees
 

Yes, in fact it happened to the people who owned the house we bought, the people we bought from had taken over a house where the owners had been forced out.

Re: Communal fees
 

Was that part of a Spanish community, because I wonder if the process might be much more complicated when the property is part of a community complex with all it's own rules and regulations to be taken into account ?

Re: Communal fees
 

No, the original owners were German and it was a multinational community, they had a President, and three vice presidents which came from the other nationalities so all were covered. We did have German, English, Spanish, Norwegian, Dutch and Swedish property owners. We had a German President (before he was kicked out) and English, Spanish and Norwegian Vice Presidents. Incidentally after he was deposed the German President stopped paying his community fees, and, last I heard, they were taking him to court over that.