elfman

and Franco didn't keep Spain entirely out of the war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_Azul

jackytoo

There wasn't many (Jews) left they got rid of them long before,read the history.

elfman

yes, OK, but the point is that Franco didn't immediately make Spain a slave to the ideology and practices of the major power that had helped him to victory.

and to put the original point another way, following world war two half of Europe came under Soviet control when Stalin was at the height of his power and while it was no picnic in those countries, they mostly didn't suffer the wholesale political slaughter that Stalin carried out in the USSR.

arko

For an interesting film on the conflict, watch 'Soldiers of Salamis', by the director David Trueba. It's based on the book by Javier Cercas, which has been translated into English.

http://www.complete-review.com/revie...na/cercasj.htm

I think 'Homage to Catalonia' was made into a film too, I'm sure I remember seeing it ages ago.

A forgotten episode of the civil war was the thousands of Republican children who were sent to the USSR during the war. Academics and The media are only starting to investigate it in more depth. These kids were literally taken from their parents and never seen again. They couldn't return because of Cold War politics and many still remain there to this day. They've finally been given Spanish citizenship but the sad thing is that many don't remember Spain or can't speak Spanish very well or are too old to return.

Dick Dasterdly

Franco,if nothing else,was a crafty so and so and always knew how to play his cards.
He knew it was best to bide his time and meanwhile try to keep everyone onside, especially the Brits and the Allies.
In any event most of his supply chain of imports by sea were controlled by the Allies who had agreed with him to allow in only essential supplies, which he was informed would be cut off if he got involved in any big way.
It was also said that he was fully aware that if he took Gibralter,then the Brits would immediately take the Canaries.

Relampago

The dictatorship harmed in the Basque Country and as in any other part of Spain, and in the Basque Country they had in favor of Franco and others that were not it. By the way, today the Basque Country has the sad privilege of still having the nazims, the " franquismo ", the intolerance. I believe that it is the only place of Europe where can give you a beating, can to harass you, to burn the car, the house, or in the worst of the cases to kidnap you or to kill you to shots or with a bomb

Now they have another dictatorship type

TheLostPhotographer

IME older people are willing to talk about the past once you gain a bit of trust and respect. Generally, people wish to forget it, or even believe it never happened, but once you get to know people they are willing to talk about their history.

Of all the countries I have spent time in (rather than a brief visit), Spain today is the least violent and has a culture that values peace and life far more. I think that is probably a response to the very ugly times older generations lived through. It is always worth remembering and talking about past horrors to let new generations appreciate just how fortunate they are today. Most older people I talk with realise the importance of discussing history.

cricketman

I wouldnt dream of talking about the civil war with my OH's relatives. It's a very emotive topic. You have to know the person well. In my opinion it is best to stay well clear.

Or you could ask about what life has changed in the past 50 years i.e. dont ask directly about the war.

Of course your Spanish will have to be very good especially if you want to understand the old men

In terms of books, I read the biography of Juan Carlos which is excellent. I read some of the "Spanish civil war" book by Paul Preston, but it is rather dry as it wants to provide information on exactly what happened when.

There is a very good quote though which sums up the evil of Franco and the Catholic church nicely. Something like (my words, not the books)...

"Franco worked out he would have to kill one in three Spanish men in order to rid Spain of anti-Catholic feeling. Franco discussed his plans with the vatican and received full support for his plans from the Pope"

Btw, the Republicans weren't Communists. They only turned to the Soviets for weapons once they realised they were totally outgunned by the Nationalists. There is no way Spain was going to be a Communist state, there wasnt enough support for that. What the republicans had planned for Spain is pretty much how the country looks now i.e. devolution of power to the regions and local councils

agoreira

I was talking last night with a friend from Oviedo and he was telling me his brother was in Madrid (several years ago now admittedly) and he was approached by some "fachas" and ordered to sing "Cara al Sol" and simply because he didn't know the words, they gave him a severe beating.

jackytoo

There are many who look back on Franco with fondness. I agree with Cricketman, even close relatives and friends do not get into discussions about the Civil War...it's a NO,NO.

Rotor

So who would England side with? both sides were murderous extremists , it would have been a job for the U.N had they existed then.

MikeJ

Just started reading "Guernica" by Dave Boling. Its about a basque family before, during and after the Condor's bombed Guernica. Guernica (Picasso) was one of the most moving pictures I ever saw.
As Rugbymatt says the basques had no reason to love the Nationalists and throughout Franco's reign were repressed and to this day the Basques and ETA have a grudge which started during the Civil War.

cricketman

I think the grudge started well before the Civil War.

Franco rather cleverly sent Spaniards to go and live in the "regions" to try and quell the sense of local nationalist identity. Thanks to his policies around half the population of Barcelona and Bilbao are Spanish immigrants or children of Spanish immigrants (rather than locals).

Catalunya has reacted by making Catalan the first language for everything including schooling. Unfortunately (or not) Basque is a lot more difficult to learn.

Someone on this forum a few days ago said Catalan was a "dead language" and said he refused to learn it. This person is very much ignorant and mistaken. Millions of people speak Catalan as a first language and it is the business and social language of Catalunya.

Although I guess I know British expats in the CDS who say there is no need for their children to learn Spanish as they only need English to get anywhere in life These expats tend to be the same ones with no education of their own...

soontoretire

Yes you are right. There was no middle ground.

Dick Dasterdly

With regard to Spain,..England played its cards just right,...as no doubt did Franco, by resisting German pressure to get seriously involved, as he was fully aware of the huge risks to all he had just gained, if things went pear shaped, as they no doubt would have,had he jumped in with both feet.