VFR

Well you did ask. (hope it does not offend)
I would get a skip and remove that monstrosity into it, and I fancy its about as much use as a chocolate teapot ??

campolife

Not offended at all.

Is it a case of just buying an inset, glass fronted one and slotting it in or is it a lot more difficult than that?

VFR

Well reading the info that Bil has posted it would seem that a good unit ain't cheap, but will pay you to bite the bullet and go for a quality item.
I would not have thought that you can simply buy a glass front for your fire as they should be designed to have one from the off, but I have no knowledge about this, just a gut feeling.
Clearly the builder has not the slightest ounce of taste & thought a pile of cladding would look good & of course would leave a bit of room on the skip for something else.
Sorry for being harsh but it looks dreadful & any further money spent on it will only be wasted, but a free standing item would look the part and work a good deal better. Something like this ??? http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_b...olo-stove.html

Bri and Katee

I've followed this article as it has developed. We are in a similar position to Campolife. We have the fireplace/hearth installed by the builder, the chimney has an internal metal flue liner in it, but we don't have a burner. This leave us in a position of having to find a insert/cassette that will actually fit the hole in the fireplace.

All of the ready built ones we have seen so far will not fit the shape of the fireplace, leaving me to either disassemble what has already been built or go to the extreme of having one made to fit the hole. Either way I cannot see a way of sealing the flue pipe to the outlet on top of the insert, there will be no space available to get arms up and around the top of it when it is installed in the hole.

Any ideas how to get around this problem Bil? Will I have to start removing brickwork to install if properly? I've included a pic so that you can see my problem. Of course if I have to start removing brickwork I may as well remove it all and put a larger unit in place anyway.

joemillonare

We have an open fire with 2 glass doors on the front. With a traditional concrete round sectional chimney. The problem is a real fire tends to burn a lot of wood I am not sure of the figures but about 80% of the heat seems to go up the chimney and about 20% comes into the room with this in mind and being currently in the uk and have purchased a firefox 8 multifuel wood burning stove from Stoves Are Us. To bring back with us in Jan/feb (we drive back in our van). included with the fire was a 1 meter length of black tubeing and a throat plate (what ever that is). Am I correct in thinking that the new fire with the new black pipe only has to reach into the existing concrete chimney and be sealed off at the joint between the two different size diameter pipe/chimney sizes or does the new 7 inch black pipe have to extend right through the existing chimney to the top.

campolife

Well having been insulted by Playamonte lol (don't worry I know where he lives!!)

Found some insertables in leroy merlin
http://www.leroymerlin.es/mpng2-fron...a-tu-hogar.pdf

Provided the chimney has been built correctly (inc flue) we will be plastering over the "expensive" cladding and painting it to blend with the rest of the room.

Well that's the plan for the moment anyway.

Can someone tell me how to connect up the unit to the flue? Can it be done from inside the fire or do I have to remove some of those lovely cladding stones to get to it?

bil

Sorry I couldn´t get on for the last couple of days.

Do please bear in mind that my experience comes from UK setups (tho I think most stuff translates across pretty well). Also that I can´t tell exactly what is involved in your structures, but with those caveats in mind, this is what I would do if the structures here were in my house, and I wanted to insert a wood burner as a cassette, or insert device.

I would cut out the hole until the casette could fit in. Bear in mind that the hole must not be so big that you remove structural/supporting brickwork. I would then cut a hole in the face of the chimney breast so that I could make good from above the stove, finishing off internally so there was a smooth taper down to the flue with the idea that all debris falling down the flue would go into the stove. You can get a funnel like connection that is plastered into the flue to make this smooth and easy. Then brick up the hole as neatly as poss and make good.

Bri and Katee

Campolife, if you go into Leroy's they have a booklet with all the burners available, along with several on display. Be advised though that they have to be ordered, we found that out a couple weeks back. From what the man told us it seems like a week or so to actually have them delivered to the store, they don't keep them in stock.

campolife

Thanks for the info Bil, Bri and Katie.

Bil
I'm not intending to do this myself unless it was incredibly easy but from what you are saying I would need to make a hole in the chimney breast to join the top flange of the fire onto the cylindrical flue.

So does it just slot on or do you have to secure it with anything and use any jointing material? Also is there anything to do a draught test with or is this not necessary? (just remember a fitter doing this with a gas fire).

Would you also recommend taking the chimney away and fitting a free standing one?

Many thanks

bil

Blimey, that´s a lot of questions.

1. It isn´t difficult. It will make a mess. The skills are very basic, just the ability to lay a couple of bricks vaguely in line, but with all the gaps between well filled with cement, and to finish, just the ability to leave the plaster level (simply drag a straight edge over it.)

2. My main concern would be the sealing around the casette in the hole, and the junction between the pipe from the stove and the pipe in the chimney. I would be inclined to cut the hole as neatly as poss for the casette, and then put glass fibre/rockwool around the casette. That can be cut flush with the wall and covered with a non flam trim. I would then cut a slot vertically to expose the pipe in the flue, being careful to not break that. I would then make an adaptor that would fit a tube that went around the outside of the pipe in the flue, and inside the enamel pipe from the stove. That´s if the chimney is a UK type one - essentially a straight tube from top to bottom.

If it is a Spanish taper, the pipe will go from the top down to the floor of the first floor, and then taper out to form the void. That would be more complex, and I would weld up a funnel, and cement that in. It´s a bit more complex, and would require a bigger hole cut in the wall.

3. I would never bother with using jointing material in the joints between flue pipes. All the ones I have seen have been tight enough. A small amount of air getting into the flue is no biggie, and as long as the joints are the correct way up, there will be no problems with condensate leakage. This is why I say expose the end of the terracotta flue pipe so that a metal tube can go arount the outside of it. Far easier to go to that trouble than go the easier way and slip the tube inside the terracotta flue pipes. To make a seal that will resist condensate leakage requires real ability and knowledge, plus a bit of luck. They can fail the first time they are used, even when installed by ´experts´.

Draught tests. Seldom if ever needed. Stick your hand in the flue and feel. That will usually tell you as much as a smoke test will, and for free. All a smoke test will tell you is if the smoke will go up the chimney. It won´t give you any guarantee as to how well, if at all, the chimney will function, and it will not warn you of any problems such as pressure zone or downdraught unless the wind in question was blowing AT THAT MOMENT.

4. Taking the chimney away. This of course has a certain charm, I have to say. Remember that the chimney may be performing a supporting role in the house, and its removal could be disastrous unless handled properly. You would need to consult a builder, and one that was not just good, but able to think outside the box. If you were able to remove most of the brickwork from the fireplace, leaving just enough to support the stack above, then the stove could sit where the fireplace is now, with an enamel pipe going to the ceiling height and just into the flue, where it couls be connected to a twin wall flexible pipe, or at a pinch, the rigid pipe could go to the top, with a seal at ceiling height (and a damn good one with thick glass fible rope and heatproof glue) and the gap between the flue pipe and the terracotta flue pipe filled with perlite. Seal at the top too, and that would do it.

Alternately you could seat the stove elsewhere in the room, freestanding, and run the pipe thru the wall as high up as poss, bends no more than 30 degrees from the vertical and run them up the outside of the wall. The outside needs to be well insulated, and where it passes thru the wall it needs to be padded with insulation to prevent it cracking the wall.

The UK booklet, Building Regulations approved document J is a damn fine source of data on all this.

Bear in mind that these rules are meant as guidance and can be bent if not actually broken, providing that the end result is safe.

Do bear in mind, that the advice I give here is what I would do. I cannnot make absolute statements on what is guaranteed to work for other people, in situations that I am not able to inspect.

With that firmly in mind, I am happy to make suggestions to anyone trying to do such work, providing they realise I accept absolutely no responsibility if it all goes pear shaped.

My personal view is that it is good to push yourself to try new things and learn new skills. You have to accept that you will screw up from time to time, so just try and ensure that your errors will not be life threatening or risk causing the house to fall down.

warren d

Our house would not get warm when we had a woodburner in the fireplace.
I checked that the chimney breast was not supporting part of the ceiling and then ripped the chimney breast out. Our woodburner is now freestanding with the pipe exposed. It was well worth it. The heat it gives off now is great and it looks better too.
I have not plastered around the top of the pipe where it goes through the ceiling into the chimney yet because I think the plaster is going to crack from drying too quickly while the fire is still in use. I'm leaving that job until Spring.

helenba

ok this is what we are going to do to keep warm bought new wood burner with back boiler 6 raideators sorted we are going to be so warm will also heat our water .450 euros .

bil

Well, like I say, there are very few materials that won´t crack. Personally I would pack the gap with glassfibre, either mat or rope, and if it won´t stay in place get some heatproof glue to hold it in place.

Freestanding stoves are far better at giving off heat for all the obvious reasons. Plus you can boil a kettle on them.

campolife

Bil

You are a star.
Thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply.

It really is appreciated.

bil

Thanks for saying that, I appreciate it. Any other questions feel free to ask away.