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Following on from Harley's thread about the upside of Chiclana, and my jousting with Mitzipurr which many of you have followed for better or for worse, would those of you who have been successful at purchasing problem free property in Chiclana care to consider posting their experiences to counteract the purchasers with problems ?? My own experiences have been rather copiously aired, so come on, there must be some more out there, or does this forum tend to attract moaners and groaners to a greater degree ??

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I would say the majority of people i know buying in Chiclana have done trouble free , but you don't as a rule come on such forums airing news or experiences you consider the norm , how many people have come on with their problems , i'm guessing but probably the equivilant of 1 to every 500 who have bought in the area .

My purchase 30 months ago was not only trouble free and straightforward , with extra bonus of an unexpected 1500 euro rebate on my notary costs but also the best thing i ever did .

I looked for two years along the coastline of spain , costa brava , costa blanca , costa calida , costa tropical , costa del sol etc , but arriving at our Hotel in Conil and walking out and seeing the beach was an experience i will never forget .

I could not understand why there was relatively no one here and that a 3 bed villa with pool and 1/3 acre was cheaper than a 2 bed apt on the CDS with all the surroundings resembling Birmingham on Sea .

1/2 an hour with the lawyer , 1 hour at the notary, a big bag of cash it was all done , electricity account set up , bank account opened and president of the street welcomed us as part of the community from day one .

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We spent 3 months searching from the Costa Blanca down and had begun to despair that our available money would buy only a ruin in an isolated area or a tiny terrace in an Anglicized urbanisation. It was with delight that we drove from Arcos de la Frontera, through Medina Sidonia and across fields and fields of sunflowers to this corner of Spain.

We'd been used to the relatively straightforward way of buying property in Portugal so were green and naive about Spanish customs - all we knew was that it was important to see a "nota simple".

A newly-established British/Spanish estate agent guided us through everything. Against all advice we've all read and I've actually advised against since, we used the solicitor and bank they recommended and our trust was not misplaced. We were firmly against the A and B money system but realised we would never get anyone to sell to us unless we agreed. The paying out of the B money was a memorable experience and I can still recall my trembling hysteria whenever I think of it!

When the ferocious Levante wind rips through here and most people feel enraged or suicidal when it hangs around for days, we wonder what we're doing here, but this is short-lived. Sitting in the garden, eating our own apricots, figs, plums, watching the storks giving us a balletic display and listening to the birds, more than makes up for the windy times.

We have lived here permanently for 3 years and have few regrets about our choice. I think we've reached an age of realising that the grass is not greener but that we carry our strengths and weaknesses wherever we go in the world.

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[QUOTE=Arco-Iris]We spent 3 months searching from the Costa Blanca down and had begun to despair that our available money would buy only a ruin in an isolated area or a tiny terrace in an Anglicized urbanisation. It was with delight that we drove from Arcos de la Frontera, through Medina Sidonia and across fields and fields of sunflowers to this corner of Spain.

We'd been used to the relatively straightforward way of buying property in Portugal so were green and naive about Spanish customs - all we knew was that it was important to see a "nota simple".

A newly-established British/Spanish estate agent guided us through everything. Against all advice we've all read and I've actually advised against since, we used the solicitor and bank they recommended and our trust was not misplaced. We were firmly against the A and B money system but realised we would never get anyone to sell to us unless we agreed. The paying out of the B money was a memorable experience and I can still recall my trembling hysteria whenever I think of it!

When the ferocious Levante wind rips through here and most people feel enraged or suicidal when it hangs around for days, we wonder what we're doing here, but this is short-lived. Sitting in the garden, eating our own apricots, figs, plums, watching the storks giving us a balletic display and listening to the birds, more than makes up for the windy times.

We have lived here permanently for 3 years and have few regrets about our choice. I think we've reached an age of realising that the grass is not greener but that we carry our strengths and weaknesses wherever we go in the world.[/QUOTE
Iris what a wonderful post..our experience of buying is almost a mirror of yours.
Yes the Levante can be furious at times, but my Spanish friends believe it is Chiclanas salvation from overdevelopment. I hope this proves true.

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I am sorry Poollounger but these forums are here to help people when they have problems and are extremely useful, so you really shouldn't put people down all the time. They are just as entitled to their views as you are. I love chiclana and don't regret one bit moving but there are problems and it helps to find solutions on this forum. FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR ALL.

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Good on you Glynis

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Now hang on Glynis and JJH. I posted on here for the first time in good faith a while ago and was immediately set upon by a certain feline poster who attacked the agent I used, the lawyer I used and my positive attitude. I have never decried anyone for posting their problems and opinions, quite the contrary, I think it is extremely healthy that people do not go in to buying property abroad be it Chiclana or anywhere else in Spain or indeed the world without knowing the possible pitfalls. However whenever I attempted to depict the other side of the coin ie that it is possible to purchase reasonably trouble free and with a positive outcome, I was told that I viewed the world through rose tinted glasses, and was not qualified to comment on the experience!!! This thread was started to assauage the doubts of many who are still in the process of buying that it doesn't have to end in disaster. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts but as a poster who privated me today said 'there is enough negativity on this forum already ' and then asked me for my advice.
As Dorothy Parker once said ' Life's a bitch and then you die!' This thread is here to try and lift us all and remind us of why we wanted to live in Chiclana in the first place. Like when a relationship is going through tough times and you have to remind yourself what made you fall in love with the person way back when everything seemed rosy and life felt so good.
My intention was to have a thread that attracts more posts like Arcos Iris, full of practical advice, but a joyousness that warmed my heart on todays very cold and frosty morning here in Britain. :) :) :) :)

PS Behave or I shall have to come and confiscate that rocking chair that you bought from a shop that I recommended ! :D

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I think we should draw a line under all the disputes. At the end of the day, opinions are usually based on your own experiences and if you have had a bad experience then you are going to be far more cynical than someone with the opposite experience.

I have been scolded, and for all I know am setting myself up for another, but there is something so magical about the area its worth chasing the dream.

BBQ's in February, breakfast in the sun (alright not every day), no threat of hose pipe bans, the most beautiful beaches, rolling green hills, blossom appearing, slow pace of life..what more could you want? (OK apart from electricity!!)

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You deride 'a certain feline poster' who lives here permanently, unlike yourself and, I believe you have said in earlier post that you never would. I do think that as residents in this place we do have a right to post our negative and positive aspects of what has happened to us. If you feel that you have to be derisory then post on andalucia.com as they seem to like this sort of thing. Please let this really be your last post on this subject as I'm sure we're all getting bored with it.

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I started this thread to hopefully get positive posts and leave the negative ones to other threads !! When I posted along the lines of Nicol and Arcos Iris I was told off for being too idealistic and painting too rosy a picture!!
JJ perhaps rather than just slagging me off you could post your impressions of livng out there permanently ?? Are you struggling with an illegal house, meter etc ?? Are the simple pleasures which those of us who visit and enjoy harder to find when one lives there permanently ?? I have often wondered what it might be like, but have no illusions that it would be like a permanent holiday. I use again the allegory of sailing. I remember being deeply disillusioned at my first long cruise at the constant repairs and problems, but realised that this is part and parcel of the experience, even with a brand new super yacht (not mine I hasten to add). There are sailing forums to help solve these issues, usually in a constructive manner. I have never derided people who post their probelms in the search for help and advice, or others who seek to advise them. I am entitled to my opinion too, and while happy to offer advice based on my limited experience, do not believe in scaremongering.
The crux of the matter is that I am essentially an optimist and hate moaners. You know the sort of people one meets outside Britain who rather than pointing out the pleasures and downsides of the country they have chosen to live in, spend all their time telling you why they would never live in Britain, or finding fault with the locals.
Come on let's hear about your experiences... are you glad you are there ?? is it what you expected?? or would you rather be over here ?? As to whether I will stop posting....I am afraid the simple answer is NO!

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Quote Poolounger....As to whether I will stop posting....I am afraid the simple answer is NO![/QUOTE]

and why should you?! You started this thread and if some people find it irrelevant or uninteresting , they don't have to follow it. This, and other fora, exist to discuss whatever we like about living in Spain.

To my mind there is no hierarchy of whose contribution is worthy to post, based on whether a member lives here permanently. We all have our different life experiences, interests and views. Look at the wealth of information, advice, stories on this website - marvellous . I, for one, wouldn't like to see people putting pressure on thread posters to "button it" because they find the topic boring. Just bypass the topic, or start your own.
So, congrats. Poolounger for not giving in, although I always smile when you say "this is my last post on the topic" and I know it won't be! and I'm glad!

I agree that there's a nucleus of people on andalucia.com who like to have a banter and dig at one another. Sometimes it's sarcastic, at others very comical and those indulging have their own set of rules and seem enjoy themselves. It's probably good therapy for them! But there's some real gold nuggets on that website too - travel, food, books, some very sound, professional information. And as for the dross, "walk on by" if you find it uninteresting.

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Absolutely at the end of the day there are good days and bad days. Things go right but things do go wrong and if you can ask for advice when this happens and not be accused of being a pessimist great. Today I went for a walk down the Drovers Road with the dog. The sun was shining, the swallows were flying overhead. I met a herd of sheep and goats with three gorgeous tiny kids and was followed home by a sweet dog (no I am not keeping him, although I would if I had permission from the other half!). So a good day but tomorrow if our lekky gets cut off, it will be a bad one! And no poollounger you can't have my rocking chair - the cat's got it!

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Hear Hear Arco-Iris.

I have found this site extremely useful, everyones opinion is valuable. No one should be shouted down, and I hope no one is discouraged from posting. Sometimes when you hear all the terrible stories it is good to know it can work out.

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Slagging off is not my style. I do live here, permanently, and have done for two years. I love it. We are not struggling with an illegal house or illegal electricity. We pay IBI, basura, electricity and even get our post delivered to our house. That's a thumbnail sketch of me and that's all you need to know.

If you're not going to stop posting then don't say it. This is my final post on this subject as I really do feel it's not going anywhere.

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:o :o :o :o :o :o

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I shouldn't worry about it, poollounger! This site is presumably democratic and if you change your mind about whether a post is your last on a particular topic, that's up to you. I've suggested on another thread that you were lucky to have such an easy ride with your (apparently well nigh spontaneous) purchase, and you weren't rude or negative in your response to me.

Good luck and keep posting.

Nothing wrong with being positive, equally it's interesting and helpful for others if people post their negative experiences which can help others from following into the same pitfalls.

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Was trying to stay tight lipped....thanks for your support ?? yes I have always agreed that luck plays a big part in it, but I did spend a year looking. Negative experiences are always worth having ... we can learn and grow from them, and they should help us to avoid pitfalls, but if history is anything to go by we never do. What I hate is the attitude prevalent everywhere but very much so in Britain, where if you have a suggestion or innovation there will immediately be a host of people telling you why you shouldn't do it or what will go wrong. As I said before, I was spooked on reading the unfortunate experiences of others just after my purchase, which fortunately was unfounded. Life isn't all misery and pain and good things do happen....venting vile and bile on others who are oblivious merely harms the venter

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To hell with being tight lipped. This Spanish site seems to have become rather snippy during the past week - I don't know why.

I've had a few pms and passed on the name of the company that I used in London to check out my purchase, and if that helps simply one person, I'm happy.

I can totally understand why people waiting for a newbuild to be completed get very pissed off - I would, but then I wouldn't want to buy a newbuild, personally.

On both the Ayamonte thread and the many many (many!) about your area, it does seem that people have - at the very least - been delayed for months. There does seem a lot of support here for people who are getting very fed up with it, and that seems wholly a good thing. There's also a lot of support for them, which is also good.

It does seem odd that you seem to come in for so much flak when other posters who say exactly the same as you seem to avoid it. Is that because you don't actually live there, I wonder? I don't live full time in Spain, but I know the area that my apartment is in very well - my parents moved there 35 years ago, does that disqualify me from commenting? I think not!

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I keep trying very hard to stay zipped but keep getting inveigled into a response. Now I could hypothesise about why I get so much flak, but that would possibly lead to a fresh assault, and it is time I spent my energies elsewhere and not retaliating. I have a friend who is permanently depressed about the state of her life and cannot see anything positive ahead. No matter what I tried to change her outlook she chose to see the dark side of life. She never watched Bergman films she was one..all doom and gloom. Wanted her life to be the way it wasn't and couldn't be. Now I just laugh at her pronouncements. This confuses her a little, but at least it doesn't drag me down with her...I see her as the central role in some black comedy.
And so I try to live my own life...I compromise and make do and see the good and try to play down the bad, and this can be annoying to people who cannot see a way out of their own downside. Now before anyone attacks me for being some supercilious *******, I have great sympathy for anyone less fortunate, but hey we are all talking about houses and flats in Spain, lifestyles of ease and contentment, second homes in the sun, when some people haven't a single roof over their head, no access to clean water or medical care, and not even enough to assuage the pangs of hunger. So lets all go out, crack open a bottle of Cava and thank our lucky stars and stop bickering !! Yes I know it's late but I haven't been drinking...Night all

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Un-mundo just realised that the smile I chose in error is embarrasment..I was hoping it depicted me with the blood coursing through my face and the veins distending as I tried to restrain myself from speaking out.......yet again...

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Welll if no leccy, poollounger - no clean water either!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry couldn't resist it.

I also have a cousin who is terrible. She looked after both her parents until they died and never worked or had a life of her own. Now they are both gone she is left in the crumbling house, which is freezing cold but worth quite a bit. She won't sell to start a new life. Won't learn to drive to get out and about, won't have a computer or a mobile phone or even an answerphone in case a burglar will know she's not in. Although I sympathise with her I too cannot spend long in her company as she cannot/will not change her life around. Sorry this is nothing to do with Chiclana!

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Well in a way it is Glynis.....we all..well at least the ones who have moved there permanently.. have found the inner courage to do it. A friend who moved to France says it was I encouraged her , which I have no memory of... apparently I said 'go for it, if it all falls flat you can always come back' In her bathroom she has a sign saying 'let not others discourage you from doing that which they will not do themselves' My other friend is not as bad as yours but is an eternal pessimist....it can drag you down all to easily if you let it. France has been a success...the other I see on a downward slope.
What about jumping in the pool (if you have one)?

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Poolounger, I enjoy reading your posts.
Nothing to do with Chiclana.......but I whole heartedly agree with you on the 'go for it, if it all falls flat you can always come back' sentiment.
We will be moving over this year, a few months later than planned but that's just another hurdle to cross. It took a life changing illness (breast cancer) to give us the kick up the arse that we needed to 'go for it' but at least 5 years down the line we will be able to say 'we did it'...for better or worse depending how things work out. Every one of our friends have said how they would love to brave enough to do what we're doing.....but they're too scared to leave the security of England. Life is so unpredictable, you have to seize each day and each new opportunity and make the most of them.
This is a brilliant site and so much helpful advice can be found. I'm sure as the time approaches for our move, I'll be on here asking question after question and searching for answers. All experience is good as long as something is learned from it.:D
BTW, we did it 'all wrong' in the way we bought our house, according to some peoples views but so far touch wood, everythings fine.
Sorry for prattling must be the anaesthetic wearing off from my sinus op yesterday:o
Mary

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Here's my twopennorth...

We looked for almost 2 years to find our place in Chiclana. We did a lot of research, and saw many different properties. We learned about the urbanisation plan, and the general situation, and eventually sifted out the agents we were not comfortable with.

At one point we thought it might be safer to buy an older, established property with all the services. However, many of these are actually just as illegal as new builds. If they did have the right credentials, the price more than reflected it.

The property we did buy is not completely legal, but then whose is? We checked the paperwork with our solicitor. What he told us made sense, he made no false promises about the situation. We have an electricity contract, and last time we looked, the meter was still in the wall. We will be sharing with one other house, but will deal with whatever consequences arise if and when they do.

The doom and gloom about urbanisation cost is speculation at the moment and given the length of time it took to finalise just the plans, we will probably all be long dead by the time it actually becomes an issue. In the meantime, I am very happy taking care of my own incomings and outgoings (if you get my drift). We pay for our refuse collection, etc., and it just remains to join the local residents association.

We love our house, have made new friends and intend to enjoy our Spanish dream to the full.

Long live Chiclana, warts 'n all!

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Yep we got a pool but won't be jumping in until 1st April!

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My sentiments exactly! As long as you go in wuth your eyes as wide open as your research allows, then you can feel comfortable with your purchase.

At the end of it end you get nothing if you don't try!

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All you back in the UK - the sun is shining, the wind has gone and there isn't a cloud in the sky!!!!!

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Thanks for that.

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Get thee behind me Satan !!!!!!!!! I am nursing a nasty flu and it looks cold and miserable outside. Must go and refill the hotwater bottle. :p

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Don't know if anyone been following the arrests in Marbella of the Major and a number of councillors on various charges , this followed all planning decisions being taken out of Marbella Councils hands ,in Chiclana now the local opposition govermnent are asking the Andulacian Junta to take away the Chiclana councils planning powers calling the current town plan a shambles ,the hope is one way or another the situation will be brought to a head and sorted, wait to see in the Marbella situation which is obviously further forward what retrospective action is taken re unauthorised development .

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The sooner illegal newbuilds and huge blocks of apartments are stopped in Spain, the better. I can only hope that this is a huge shot across the bows for other mercenary jobsworths in Spain, in all of its regions.

They need to look very seriously at the amount of urbanisations that they are building, particularly golf resorts, that gobble up water and give damn all back to the local community. And those developers that build huge skyscrapers, get fined, pay the fine and are allowed to leave their ugly buildings in situ.

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Please how did you come by this information?

If correct then at last somebody in authority in Chiclana has seen the light and I will watch with interest to what happens in the future. :)

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I spotted it on www.costadelaluznews.com

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Well spotted NicCol. Perhaps someone can explain the implications of the senetences causing something or the other to be annuled?? The statement that the challenges were brought by developers doesn't bode well for the future!! Lets hope that furious Levante deters overdevelopment.

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Hi thanks for that. However do not fully understand. Reading between the lines it would appear that the town council are blaming the builders. Can anybody explain please?

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Sorry this is a bit long, but here's the piece from the Guardian :

Marbella council dissolved after corruption claims

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Wednesday April 5, 2006
The Guardian


"The Spanish government called an emergency cabinet meeting yesterday to dissolve the town council of the southern resort of Marbella, sending caretaker administrators to take charge as the mayor and several officials remained in jail on corruption charges.
With police unable to explain a mysterious daytime break-in to the municipal archives on Monday, the sense of chaos in a resort town where thousands of British people have bought property grew.

Marbella's municipal police chief, Rafael del Pozo, whose force has been accused of acting on the orders of the alleged millionaire head of a €2.4bn (£1.6bn) network of local corruption, is due to appear before a magistrate today.


Administrators will work alongside police investigators, who are examining the town's computer systems and filing cabinets for further evidence against the mayor, Marisol Yagüe, her deputy mayor and nine other people who were jailed last week. They are accused of misappropriation of public funds, bribery, influence-peddling, and collusion to profit from inflating land prices.
In a document obtained by the newspaper ABC, an investigating magistrate said of the deputy mayor, Isabel García Marcos: "She charges for everything, for every piece of paperwork she does. She doesn't do anything unless there is a payment." The same magistrate described Ms Yagüe as a puppet in the hands of Juan Antonio Roca, the alleged head of the network of corruption.

Fresh local elections would be held in May next year, the deputy prime minister, María Teresa Fernández de la Vega, said after the cabinet meeting. "This government does not tolerate, nor will it tolerate and much less support corrupt behaviour," she said."

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Perhaps we don't need to worry until property prices in Chiclana reach the million pound mark like they have in Marbella?? Oh that something similar would happen in parts of Britain..may not be on such a grand scale and is perhaps rather more subtle, but corruption is not a Spanish invention!