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Chiclana - electric

Chiclana - electric

Old Oct 13th 2005, 6:55 am
  #106  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

It seems paperwork is irrelevent if you look how Marbella and many more council planners have been performing, nearly as many illegal builds as legal
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Old Oct 13th 2005, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by mitzipurr
Hi Poollounger

Sorry but you are incorrect re land. It clearly states on both my nota simpla that my land is horizontally divided. It has taken some time but the whole matter is very shortly being dealt with by a competent lawyer who is absolutely appalled at the way I have been treated by various parties. It will take some time but he is very confident that I will win my case.

Your Spanish must be excellent if you can read all this information for yourself about your land etc from the Escitura. I have had mine translated and officially stamped by an authorised Spanish to English translator and the information is nowhere near what I was told or not told originally by parties whom had a vested interest in the sale.

However I do hope all goes well for you as I would not wish my situation on anyone else.
It seems a shame that you have had to resort to another lawyer, but good luck and I hope it sorts itself out. It may have been incompetence rather than an attempt to defraud, but I would be interested to hear both sides of the story. If it was a horizontal divide then how come you didn't just own a straight 50% of the plot?? No my Spanish is non existent, but I was given an english translation of the standard part of the contract, and I can make sense of the Spanish, and the lawyer, the agent the owners and ourselves were there as he typed all the additional clauses that were neccessary. The Notario spoke excellent English and translated the documents again at the final signing. You can be assured that if I have any problems in the future and find that there was any shady dealing, I shall publish and name names on every website I can find, and any TV programme that I can get to listen. Let them sue me!! This is an ongoing thread I can see, and I am engaging as I find it fascinating to read about all this so called duping that is going on... similar to many of the foreigners who come to work in places like Canary Wharf and with lack of knowledge of the Docklands housing market are often sold overpriced properties. I believe the people who lost money because of the land grab laws in Valencia may finally get some justice in the European Courts.
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Old Oct 13th 2005, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by mitzipurr
Hi Poollounger

Sorry but you are incorrect re land. It clearly states on both my nota simpla that my land is horizontally divided. It has taken some time but the whole matter is very shortly being dealt with by a competent lawyer who is absolutely appalled at the way I have been treated by various parties. It will take some time but he is very confident that I will win my case.

Your Spanish must be excellent if you can read all this information for yourself about your land etc from the Escitura. I have had mine translated and officially stamped by an authorised Spanish to English translator and the information is nowhere near what I was told or not told originally by parties whom had a vested interest in the sale.

However I do hope all goes well for you as I would not wish my situation on anyone else.

Hello Mitzipurr

Good to see you posting again, I wondered if you were offline because of the electrics or worse, (or maybe you have been here all the time but I haven't seen your posts) but glad to see you are still up and fighting. I really hope your lawyer gets things sorted for you, I know it's been a long drawn out procedure. I know you were in contact with the same lawyer that I have at one time, are you still with him or is this a new lawyer who you are using now? I do wish you all the very best, your situation sounds truly appalling.
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Old Oct 13th 2005, 8:16 am
  #109  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by cindyp
Hello Mitzipurr

Good to see you posting again, I wondered if you were offline because of the electrics or worse, (or maybe you have been here all the time but I haven't seen your posts) but glad to see you are still up and fighting. I really hope your lawyer gets things sorted for you, I know it's been a long drawn out procedure. I know you were in contact with the same lawyer that I have at one time, are you still with him or is this a new lawyer who you are using now? I do wish you all the very best, your situation sounds truly appalling.

Hi Cindy

Good to hear from you again to. Yes I am still fighting. No not using the same lawyer (MT) he could not find anyone to handle the case in Chiclana would you believe it!!

Thank you for your best wishes. I will keep you up to speed with progress.
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Old Oct 13th 2005, 8:52 am
  #110  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by poollounger
It seems a shame that you have had to resort to another lawyer, but good luck and I hope it sorts itself out. It may have been incompetence rather than an attempt to defraud, but I would be interested to hear both sides of the story. If it was a horizontal divide then how come you didn't just own a straight 50% of the plot?? No my Spanish is non existent, but I was given an english translation of the standard part of the contract, and I can make sense of the Spanish, and the lawyer, the agent the owners and ourselves were there as he typed all the additional clauses that were neccessary. The Notario spoke excellent English and translated the documents again at the final signing. You can be assured that if I have any problems in the future and find that there was any shady dealing, I shall publish and name names on every website I can find, and any TV programme that I can get to listen. Let them sue me!! This is an ongoing thread I can see, and I am engaging as I find it fascinating to read about all this so called duping that is going on... similar to many of the foreigners who come to work in places like Canary Wharf and with lack of knowledge of the Docklands housing market are often sold overpriced properties. I believe the people who lost money because of the land grab laws in Valencia may finally get some justice in the European Courts.

Hi Poollounger.

The original lawyer recommended by the estate agent visited the house. After checking the plot size said "I am sorry I have made a mistake". His final solution after several visits to his office to try and sort this matter out was to advise me to sell the house. The estate agent has been nowhere near since I bought the property and has not helped in any way whatsoever. This is despite her website promising the earth in after sales care to any potential purchaser. She translated in front of the notario the contents of the escitura (or not) and signed this document as such. The plot has been divided into three horizontal parts this was allowed when my house was built.

I hope you have no problems but greatly admire your stance re naming people etc. I have also been approached by the media and could will take your attitude depending on the outcome of my case.
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Old Oct 13th 2005, 9:52 am
  #111  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

[QUOTE=mitzipurr]Hi Poollounger.

The original lawyer recommended by the estate agent visited the house. After checking the plot size said "I am sorry I have made a mistake". His final solution after several visits to his office to try and sort this matter out was to advise me to sell the house. The estate agent has been nowhere near since I bought the property and has not helped in any way whatsoever. This is despite her website promising the earth in after sales care to any potential purchaser. She translated in front of the notario the contents of the escitura (or not) and signed this document as such. The plot has been divided into three horizontal parts this was allowed when my house was built.

I hope you have no problems but greatly admire your stance re naming people etc. I have also been approached by the media and could will take your attitude depending on the outcome of my case. [/QUOTE
It's no great stance but just what I feel I would do if in a similar situation if I knew I had been duped. Am I right in thinking that she translated accurately what was in the escritura, but it never tallied with the actual plot?? Well this could be so for any of us, as I certainly haven't been around my perimeter with a tape measure and I doubt if she has.
It is certainly an interesting case, and unfortunately a distressing one for yourself. Thinking of it in English terms, I must say I don't think any solicitor involved with any purchase I know of has been to a property to check the room dimensions are as quoted on deeds, estate agents particulars etc, nor to check that boundary wall details are indeed being honoured. Surely the mortgage valuer should have checked this, or perhaps you were a cash buyer? Estate agents details in England always state that all details are provided in good faith and are not legally binding. Perhaps plot measurements in Spain are often an approximation. Am I right in assuming that your real dispute is with the neighbour who has contravened the deeds? Or are you infering that the agent and solicitor knew of the discrepancy but just pushed ahead to clinch the sale ?? Should you not be suing the neighbour ??

On a different note, most properties I looked at in Spain, and in February I looked at 23 on a visit, between Huelva and Estepa and south to Moron, were built without planning permission. I was told that this is often normal in new builds, and they are legalised retrospectively by an architect declaring they are five years old, in which case planning permission is a 'fait accompli'. I remember a wonderful house nestling in trees at Lucena del Porto near Huelva with a lovely pool, that had been on and off the market and was cheap. Was told it was now sold, the purchaser having raised the money in England. Another agent said it was possibly cheap because it was on agricultural land, and hence difficult to legalise and mortgage in Spain.
Another agent with a comprehensiive web site told me it was standard to bring a bag with E3000 to hand over to the vendor in rural areas to show ones goodwill and serious intent!!
The agent I used in Chiclana behaved scrupulously unless future events prove otherwise, everything being noted on the contract form, the initial E600, pending the remaining 10%being sent over etc etc, and has offered an excellent after sales service.
I can understand why so many buy on urbanisations, as it seems to be trouble free until one reads about unfinished pools and landscaping. Even in England there are many service charge disputes on similar style developments.
I wish you luck and hope you can sort it and then relax into life in Spain. I certainly wish I was still on he beach at Sancti Petri rather than back here in South London.
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Old Oct 13th 2005, 11:16 am
  #112  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

[QUOTE=poollounger]
Originally Posted by mitzipurr
Hi Poollounger.

The original lawyer recommended by the estate agent visited the house. After checking the plot size said "I am sorry I have made a mistake". His final solution after several visits to his office to try and sort this matter out was to advise me to sell the house. The estate agent has been nowhere near since I bought the property and has not helped in any way whatsoever. This is despite her website promising the earth in after sales care to any potential purchaser. She translated in front of the notario the contents of the escitura (or not) and signed this document as such. The plot has been divided into three horizontal parts this was allowed when my house was built.

I hope you have no problems but greatly admire your stance re naming people etc. I have also been approached by the media and could will take your attitude depending on the outcome of my case.
It's no great stance but just what I feel I would do if in a similar situation if I knew I had been duped. Am I right in thinking that she translated accurately what was in the escritura, but it never tallied with the actual plot?? Well this could be so for any of us, as I certainly haven't been around my perimeter with a tape measure and I doubt if she has.

No she did not translate these details on the escitura. Had she done we would have walked away and not bought the property. When we viewed the property she told us the plot size was 1000 sq mt. In fact it is 720. On the escitura it is 1449. We pay IBI on 1449! Any estate agent worth his or her salt knows approx how much land a property has without having to measure it.

It is certainly an interesting case, and unfortunately a distressing one for yourself. Thinking of it in English terms, I must say I don't think any solicitor involved with any purchase I know of has been to a property to check the room dimensions are as quoted on deeds, estate agents particulars etc, nor to check that boundary wall details are indeed being honoured. Surely the mortgage valuer should have checked this, or perhaps you were a cash buyer?

We were cash buyers so no bank was involved. However there was a exsisting mortgage of 108.000 euros on the property.

Estate agents details in England always state that all details are provided in good faith and are not legally binding. Perhaps plot measurements in Spain are often an approximation.

Plot sizes do vary slightly in Spain but only by a few meters not over 700!

Am I right in assuming that your real dispute is with the neighbour who has contravened the deeds? Or are you infering that the agent and solicitor knew of the discrepancy but just pushed ahead to clinch the sale ??


My dispute is with anyone who is at fault be it agent solicitor or neighbour. However I have my suspicions who really is to blame for all the distress this has caused me.

Should you not be suing the neighbour ??



It could well come to that.

On a different note, most properties I looked at in Spain, and in February I looked at 23 on a visit, between Huelva and Estepa and south to Moron, were built without planning permission. I was told that this is often normal in new builds, and they are legalised retrospectively by an architect declaring they are five years old, in which case planning permission is a 'fait accompli'. I remember a wonderful house nestling in trees at Lucena del Porto near Huelva with a lovely pool, that had been on and off the market and was cheap. Was told it was now sold, the purchaser having raised the money in England. Another agent said it was possibly cheap because it was on agricultural land, and hence difficult to legalise and mortgage in Spain.
Another agent with a comprehensiive web site told me it was standard to bring a bag with E3000 to hand over to the vendor in rural areas to show ones goodwill and serious intent!!
The agent I used in Chiclana behaved scrupulously unless future events prove otherwise, everything being noted on the contract form, the initial E600, pending the remaining 10%being sent over etc etc, and has offered an excellent after sales service.

I have no comment but please read my first post again!

I can understand why so many buy on urbanisations, as it seems to be trouble free until one reads about unfinished pools and landscaping. Even in England there are many service charge disputes on similar style developments.
I wish you luck and hope you can sort it and then relax into life in Spain. I certainly wish I was still on he beach at Sancti Petri rather than back here in South London.


I have lived on the Costa del Sol on a urbanisation and it is far from trouble free even when it is established. My intention of buying a property in Chiclana was indeed to relax. I made one big mistake and trusted the wrong people.
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Old Oct 15th 2005, 4:02 am
  #113  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Whereabouts do I look on my deeds to see if it is a horizontal division? Can't believe you got a meter just like that!!!!! There is a God out there than....
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Old Oct 17th 2005, 12:48 am
  #114  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by glynis
Whereabouts do I look on my deeds to see if it is a horizontal division? Can't believe you got a meter just like that!!!!! There is a God out there than....
As it is a freehold site, there is no mention of a horizontal division. I have checked with the agent who has been as efficient as she has been all the way through, and we do not need a licencia de primera occupacion as there was a house on the site originally, hence why we have a legal meter.
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Old Oct 17th 2005, 12:56 am
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That makes sense, poollounger......lucky old you.
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Old Oct 17th 2005, 1:09 am
  #116  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Thats good poolounger, now you can stop worrying and sart enjoying your new home!

Glynis - I have checked my paperwork and at the back ok the Copia simple and somehere in the middle of the Escritura we got back from the Notary is a section entitled Nota informativa de Domino y De carga

It sets out when the Horizontal division was registered by the previous owners, it includes all the dates and details including a description of our house. It's dated about 18 months before we bought it.

When I registered for IBI at the Town Hall, I had to show them on the plan which was our house so they could register the correct one.
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Old Oct 17th 2005, 7:12 pm
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Smile Re: Chiclana - electric

Hi poolounger,

On another track completely I don't see you as overweight more the sophisticated type by the pool G&T in hand and sunglasses firmly on taking the rays.

This post took me straight back to "O" level physics and a diagram in the text book of a "black body radiator". Thats 45yrs by the way. It showed a matt black sphere painted inside and out in matt black with a pin hole in the top. The theory went something like this, light energy would enter through the pin hole and generate heat on the inside but could not escape because there was no reflective surface to bounce it back out of the hole. Over time enough energy would enter to heat the sphere up to boil water. Sounds like the South African swimming pool could be based on good science. I shall have to investigate a deep blue turquoise pool myself.

Regards,

John.

PS. Short, stout and shabby myself.

Originally Posted by poollounger
By the way, Quimi Pool also offer the solar pool heating system, and they said it can be fitted retrospectively. We are making a decision as to whether they or a local builder are to install our pool. Quimi seem to offer standard choice of tiles etc, while as local buider can offer colour variations. Some friends of mine were the subjetc of a TV show choosing between houses in Devon and South Africa--they chose neither in the end--but one of the houses featured had a black pool, which apparently retains the heat better, hence it is warmer. We are looking at a lovely deep turquoise blue.
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Old Oct 17th 2005, 7:51 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by John & Kath
Hi poolounger,

On another track completely I don't see you as overweight more the sophisticated type by the pool G&T in hand and sunglasses firmly on taking the rays.

This post took me straight back to "O" level physics and a diagram in the text book of a "black body radiator". Thats 45yrs by the way. It showed a matt black sphere painted inside and out in matt black with a pin hole in the top. The theory went something like this, light energy would enter through the pin hole and generate heat on the inside but could not escape because there was no reflective surface to bounce it back out of the hole. Over time enough energy would enter to heat the sphere up to boil water. Sounds like the South African swimming pool could be based on good science. I shall have to investigate a deep blue turquoise pool myself.

Regards,

John.

PS. Short, stout and shabby myself.
As with all things in life the truth is I am somewhere inbetween...........Deep blue pools are feasible but not from a builder like Quimipool who only offer the standard blues in lighter shades. Sadly the darker colours are special orders and cost more....but worthy it for the comfort and longer usage of the pool if one can find the cash. Yes a GT on a hot day is perfection, but the chiringita on the beach near old Sancti Petri does a mean Caipirinha...Rum, limes, sugar syrup and loads of ice.... but keep it a secret.
PVT me if you want the details of the builder I am probably going to use... he comes highly recommended by a local whose house he has almost re-built, and I saw a great pool he has built for someone in Marquesado.
Regards
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 2:01 am
  #119  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by poollounger
As with all things in life the truth is I am somewhere inbetween...........Deep blue pools are feasible but not from a builder like Quimipool who only offer the standard blues in lighter shades. Sadly the darker colours are special orders and cost more....but worthy it for the comfort and longer usage of the pool if one can find the cash. Yes a GT on a hot day is perfection, but the chiringita on the beach near old Sancti Petri does a mean Caipirinha...Rum, limes, sugar syrup and loads of ice.... but keep it a secret.
PVT me if you want the details of the builder I am probably going to use... he comes highly recommended by a local whose house he has almost re-built, and I saw a great pool he has built for someone in Marquesado.
Regards
Ah Poollounger, I went for a walk on beach at Sancti Petri on Sunday with my dog and stopped at that chiringuito for a beer. It was lovely and I saw that they do caribean food - have you had any? Definitely will try the cocktail now. Do you know how to get to the spit of sand on the other side of the harbour?

On the electric subject - heard today that it has been agreed that all properties will be made legal except the ones in the white zones!!
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 2:11 am
  #120  
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Default Re: Chiclana - electric

Originally Posted by glynis
Ah Poollounger, I went for a walk on beach at Sancti Petri on Sunday with my dog and stopped at that chiringuito for a beer. It was lovely and I saw that they do caribean food - have you had any? Definitely will try the cocktail now. Do you know how to get to the spit of sand on the other side of the harbour?

On the electric subject - heard today that it has been agreed that all properties will be made legal except the ones in the white zones!!
aye up Glynis, to get across you have to drive right round the head land & walk down to it along the sand dunes, or get a lift across by boat
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