Catalan independance
 

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/05/08/...31_083946.html

They seem hell-bent on going ahead with total independence regardless of Madrid.

Could have far reaching repercussions for the whole of Spain.

Re: Catalan independance
 

I think the Gibraltarians will give their support :thumbsup:

Re: Catalan independance
 

Not so much independence, more hacking off dead limbs.

Why they can't solve the problem by moving the capital of Spain to Barcelona (where everybody knows it should be) escapes me.

Re: Catalan independance
 

Am I not right in thinking that if Catalonia were to become independant then they would have to apply to to EU for membership and to gain membership all EU country's would have to vote yes to entry, Spain would of course vote no so there would be no Euro for Catalonia and I think polls show membership of EU and retention of the Euro are key to Catalans,

I think same applys to Scotland with reguard to EU membership, if Scotland were to vote for independence Spain would vote against there membership of the EU

Re: Catalan independance
 

I believe there is a growing number of Europeans who do not necessarily believe that membership of the EU is so important.

Re: Catalan independance
 

Count me as one of them. :thumbup:

Re: Catalan independance
 

Today Thursday is Día de Europa. I'm one of those Europeans who is in favour of Europe and the EU - especially since the alternative would mean I would need work permit, visa, health insurance, wouldn't be able to vote (participate) in my pueblo... and who knows what else.

Re: Catalan independance
 

Well, at least you won't be inconvenienced as you become poorer.

Re: Catalan independance
 

I agree lots of Europeans in the EU want out but the point is in any polls I have seen re Catalan independence membership of the EU is rated very high on there must have list, so this being the case how likely are they to vote for independence?, ditto Scotland

Re: Catalan independance
 

There are many reasons why Catalonia can not be independent, I will say a few:

1) Only an part of the Catalans want independence. This is the main problem. What happens is that the nationalists claim the right to speak for all Catalans

2) Catalonia has never been an independent country, never. It was always a part of Spain, is a province that was born of the ancient kingdom of Aragon. An independent country that wants its independence is Scotland, for example, do you know where is Scotland, right? A country with flag, anthem and culture own...but Catalonia? Please ...

3) The catalonian autonomic police receive its salary of the the Ministry of Interior (ie, my tax) and not of the Generalitat of Catalonia (oh, Ministry of Interior, oh my God, is Spain). Catalonia would have to refund all the money and the skills we have given for decades to Catalonia, as its billionaire Olympics games

In short, before that an independent Catalonia, I won the lottery, I am a member of the House of Lords and sure I catch a fish that breathes air, plays guitar and is capable of calculating cubic roots

Re: Catalan independance
 

And me! And it would seem the numbers are growing. For me the problem is the pro Europeans are convinced that their argument is 100% correct, everyone else is wrong, anyone else is a "nutter, a fruitcake". I'm sure nobody would have called the likes of Nigel Lawson, Michael Portillo etc (minister with great experience of government) nutcases before they said they thought we'd be better off out of the EU, but I guess being sceptics makes them nutters.

Re: Catalan independance
 

I am sure Catalonia has given money to the Spanish government, however what the balance is I have no Idea.

Skills, lets see:- Deception, fraud, embezelment, nepotism etc. etc.

Re: Catalan independance
 

Rupeert Murdoch is against Europe as well...
But then, he doesn't live here.

Re: Catalan independance
 

I congratulate you in your use of English and can forgive the few mistakes. I wish my castellano were as good.

Whilst Catalonia may never have been an independent country, it most certainly was an independent "region" in the pre Middle Ages, being more an extension of France than Spain, with the general title of Barcelona rather than Catalonia. It became 'incorporated' into "Spain" (the Crown of Aragon) as well as Valencia, Majorca & Aragon) in the middle ages.

As Gerald Brenan says in his excellent book "The Spanish Labyrinth" the various independent movements that exist today in Spain are really a protest against Madrid's bad government.
One has to ask why Spain's various regions (eg Galicia, Valencia, Catalonia, Euskadi) feel uneasy at being governed by Madrid. Until there is a government in Spain that will LISTEN rather than DICTATE, then the problem of the regions will never be solved.

Re: Catalan independance
 

To be fair, the Spanish provinces have more autonomy than any other regions in the world, including that of the states of the USA, and the countries that make up the UK

There are distinct cultures and "nations" within Spain, there is no doubt about that. The problem is that Franco imported Andalucians and Murcians into these regions so that now in Bilbao and Barcelona for example, nearly half of the population come from immigrants i.e. non-Catalans or non-Basques, so things are more diluted than they may have been - exactly what Franco intended

PSOE were in power for 8 years, they are definitely listeners rather than doers :rofl: but still there was a lot of nationalistic sentiment

The PP only recognise those related to Franco, the King or God himself as true Spaniards