From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

After spending the past 24 years or so in Canada we are considering a move back across the pond.

There seems to be pro's and cons with both.. Anyone made such a leap?

The main concern is access to affordable excellent healthcare which we do get here in Canada.
Apart from that, we want somewhere that would give us a better quality of life to pursue the things we enjoy, which in turn I feel will help my husband over some of his health issues..
We love art, museums, Cathedrals, history, culture, countryside, photography.. We are foodies, (not the fish & chips and pint down the local types) more, country pubs in the UK or Tapa's and locally owned restaurants rather than touristy ones in Spain.

Cost of living will play a part, It was easy moving to Canada, far more bang for your buck.. Moving to the UK the opposite will be true..

Thoughts anyone :)

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

How about a punt on Scotland? They will have cheap healthcare, lower taxes, free buses, etc etc by the time you arrive. Mind you it might be a bit like the Wild West - might not all be roses.

Sorry that was just my humour.

I would try somewhere other than the UK and Spain. Both have the two fastest increasing national debts in the whole of the EU. The UK at £3000 a second and Spain even higher. There will be a bloody correction in my view.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

I've seen many similar posts over the years where people list all the problems with UK, and at the same time highlighting the good things about the country they are living in now. So if their current abode is better, why consider UK? Their current country is obviously nor doing it for them or they would not be thinking about upping sticks and leaving, it's expensive and a huge upheaval. Spain or UK? Lots of pros and contras, Spain certainly better weather, but you know the weather in UK and it's still on your list. Certainly from your list, art, museums, Cathedrals, history, culture, countryside, photography, country pubs, UK certainly ticks all those boxes, as would Spain. (just been watching a programme featuring Ely Cathedral, what a building, fantastic!) If you have no Spanish, away from the Brit ghettos on the coast you might struggle, I suspect they wouldn't be for you. Or me!;) Difficult decision, really depends on your finances and expectations. Oh, and unfortunately I've spent more time with the NHS than I would like, but I've found it OK, but it can be a postal lottery.
Just seen Olivefarmer's post, I don't live in Scotland, but all my healthcare is free, including prescriptions, and even buses, although I've never used it.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

I wish the millions trying to get in would heed your advice, and that includes all the Spanish arrivals to UK.;) The men that dish out the triple A ratings still believe in UK (unlike the EU), others think we are on track as well, but maybe they are not as well informed as you. I'll get them to have a chat with you, you can put them right. ;)

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Well, we can spend all our lives, worrying about the what if's...The way I see it, the USA is down the toilet by 2016 they won't be able to service their debt or all their unfunded future liabilities!!
When the USA catches a cold the whole world gets a cold, except China is buying all the natural resources it can from around the world.. (I don't want to move to China or Singapore thanks.. LOL )

At least in Spain the people aren't so far removed generational from 'The land' and in 'Greater Depression' hyper inflationary world would be better able to cope than those that think that food grows in Supermarkets and live on a expectation of the Government will provide...
Wow.. Phew enough of that.. If I were to think in those terms I'd stay either in Canada or move to a country with low debt and a stable currency.. That rules out most of the world.. Soooooo that said....

Why not just follow our heart and move to a Country that feeds our Soul and moves us..
Spain or England!!
..

..
.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Unfortunately the track record of the "experts" is not great. How many forecast the severity of the downturn we have experienced?

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

A big consideration for me would be language. If you are not fluent in Spanish as you age and are more reliant on healthcare and other services, language becomes an issue. Unless you live in an area with a large expat population language may become a problem. I suspect you do not wish to live in an expat area.
Ignoring property costs, that have huge variances in both countries I do not think there is a great deal of difference in the cost of living unless you smoke and drink a lot.
I can see the attraction of Spain but for me it would be the UK, with long holidays in Spain/elsewhere.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

That is a very good point - the two countries are only a couple of hours flight or so from each other. Perhaps the criteria should be proximity to a well-used airport ie one that has plenty of cheap Easyjet connections? Main drawback with the south-east of England is the high price of accommodation, whether renting or buying. Having said that, although rents can be cheap in Spain, you may find you get hammered with taxes if buying there.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

True, but if I was a betting man, I'd still be putting my money on UK being in better financial state than Spain in 5-10 years time. Let's not forget, UK has always been a net contributor, Spain the largest recipient ever of EU funds, yet it's still in a lot worse state than UK, Spain seems incapable of surviving on it's own. I don't think we need to be, or need to consult an "expert" to know that getting unemployment down from 26% to a UK/Germany equivalent of ~7% ain't going to happen in our time. Spain will be a country for old people, the young will have all emigrated looking for jobs! :rofl:
And for me! We don't know the OP's financial situation, but I've always said Spain is great to move to if you are rich, not so great if you aren't rich.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

After 24 years away from the UK you might find some drastic changes on your return. Not if you're returning to the Pembroke coast or the Black Isle, but if you could hear the Bow Bells where you were born, then that part of the country no longer exists.

Spain is a vast, diverse and under-populated country, where foreigners are mostly made welcome by the local population, but the diversity especially is astounding. Even in expat areas you can hardly compare genteel Moraira with brash Mijas Costa.

In 'real' Spain, a misnomer, you need a decent fluency in Spanish for a comfortable life, and the various facilities you desire may not be present. Unless you're a qualifying EU pensioner, medical services are not free, though excellent.

Whichever you choose, good luck.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Comparing Spain to the UK based on your needs is almost impossible.

Flip a coin. When it is in the air, you will know which way you want it to land.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Unless your finances are simple, Spain is a real ball ache, we dare not even think about moving to Spain. If you go on the horrendous Expat Forum, that actually ought to be called the retired public sector forum, you will note that most of the members have their public sector and state pensions plus what is left of their tax-free lump sums as savings, this fits in with the Spanish system like a glove.

We have state and private pensions, shares, ISA's, fixed interest deposits and investment property, a birthday for the Spanish tax man. :eek:

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

As we do not know the ages of the OPs, then there is healthcare to factor in, in the UK the NHS would be free, but not in Spain, unless you are a pensioner, but even then you have to pay something towards the healthcare costs, there is also no benefit net in Spain, perhaps the OP will not need that, but it is something to consider.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Yes, my first thought when the OP wrote

"The main concern is access to affordable excellent healthcare which we do get here in Canada."

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

I sometimes think that more then half the expats in Spain have state and private pensions, and most of them must be worried about the latest tax developments, my wife and I are.

A glimmer of light seems to be Spain finally emerging out of recession and posting record exports, and even house prices going up over the last quarter, something that hasn't happened for many years. I also read that they've lowered the fines for drunk driving - how can you make sense of that?

But I wouldn't bet on any of it.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Services getting worse all the time. A report in todays paper says that a man waited 8 hours for 30 stiches in his ear after a fall in Málaga...and that's only the tip if the iceburg.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

You can say that again
"Knee and hip replacement operations and cataract removals fall to lowest level for five years as patients left longer in pain."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...e-hip-cataract

Regardless of country it's a real worry. Maybe the OP should stay in Canada?

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

oooh are we having a what about the UK thread again:rofl: Looked at the waiting lists in Spain recently:blink:

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Look at the thread title jacky. :rofl: No need to get stroppy because you can't get away with your constant "Spain bad, UK great" agenda again. Cutbacks in health services are a worry for all of us.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

But at least the OP would get free health care in the UK eh:D

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

You really think that the way privatisation of the nhs is going , that state of affairs will remain in the UK? If so you have far more faith than I do.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

As far as health care goes, I would advise the OP to look carefully at the hospitals in whatever area of the UK they consider moving to. Whilst the quality of care in some is good, in others it appears to be anything but. Take the case of the Royal Bournemouth Hospital, for example (an area popular with retirees) - the new style CQC report published last week (introduced in the wake of the Mid Staffs scandal) called some wards, including ones specialising in the care of the elderly, "dangerous and inadequate", conclusions which many people living in the area seem to agree with, judging from the comments below this article:-


http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/new...outh_Hospital/

There is little point speaking the same language as the nurses if they are going to ignore your needs anyway.

Conversely, Salford Royal Hospital received a glowing report, but I don't think anybody in their right mind would recommend Salford as a place to live.

However, all the indications are that waiting lists for many forms of treatment in Spain are getting longer and it is true that the OP would need to pay something towards the cost of whatever medication is prescribed for them. There have also been reports that restrictions on certain kinds of very costly treatment being available being tightened - but this can also sometimes apply in the UK too, there having been reports a few months ago that patients in Wales were being forced to move to England (or pretend they had done so and use a relative's address) in order to be able to access certain expensive cancer drugs, as so much of the Welsh NHS budget had been used up in paying for free prescriptions and free parking at hospitals for all.

As with most things, there are things for and against in both countries. If you want to live in a scenically beautiful area, particularly one of historical interest, with a relatively mild climate, and one with little or no social problems, then housing in such areas of the UK is going to be far more expensive either to buy or to rent than a similar area in Spain would be. However, as the OP may have read elsewhere, great caution needs to be exercised when considering buying a property in a rural area of Southern Spain, in particular, as so many have been declared "illegal builds" retrospectively, leaving their owners in a terrible position.

Personally, I think a "city on the beach", particularly Malaga or Valencia, takes a lot of beating when considering somewhere to live. I would say Valencia has the edge for foodies, and the city beaches are superb. On the other hand, Malaga is ideally situated for easy access to places of great historical interest like Granada, Cordoba and Sevilla, even ski-ing in the Sierra Nevada, and it is easy to travel across to Morocco for a taste of another culture. Malaga also has more international flight connections, I think. Both cities have a more temperate climate than inland areas of Southern Spain, with mild winter weather and slightly less scorching summers.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Would a Canadian pensioner get any free health care at all in Spain?....can someone have a google, some of you are so good at it with all these links:D

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

We are in our 50's so we wouldn't get healthcare.. Some of the autonomous regions.. (sorry not sure of terminology) have started to offer a 'pay in system' but it's up to the regions to opt in or out of it..
I know that healthcare is 'doable' without going the expensive private insurance route..

I have a feeling that 'quality of life' would be better in Spain.. It looks like Javea and the Costa Blanca have very active U3A's..

I do like Malaga and surrounding areas too..

As for the U.K. I think property rental or otherwise is not an option, the sort of house we would like in S.W. England would just cost way too much, and I'm not a 'settle for less' kinda gal!!

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

As a matter of fact, private health insurance in Spain can be less expensive than paying the recently introduced cuota to receive treatment from the state health system - although the cuota system is better for anyone who has pre-existing conditions.

My OH and I are insured with a company called Prevision Medica (which only covers Malaga province and part of Cordoba province). For a couple aged 64 and 57 our premiums next year will go up to €55 per person, slightly less than the cost of paying to receive state cover. We would, however, have to pay 100% of the cost of any medication prescribed (other than that prescribed during a hospital stay). There are no co-payments or excess involved for any kind of treatment. Just to give you some idea, as a comparison.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

My husband has a couple of pre-existing conditions, so I would want to be sure they were covered... he's had Pulmonary Embolisms in the past, the fact that he's on warfarin makes it 'stable' but it's still a pre-existing condition.. Then there is the fact that he had a subarachnoid Brain hemorrhage in April, idiopathic.. But likely caused by clonking himself on the head when changing over from the winter tyres on the car.. He had to obviously go off the Warfarin because of the Brain bleed and ended up getting Pulmonary Embolisms again !! Now he's back to being 'stable' ...To look at him you wouldn't realize he's had these problems.. But I doubt a private insurance company would want to take the risk....

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Oh yes, then you would most definitely be better off paying the cuota to be covered under the state health system.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Certainly Spain wins there, millions of properties going cheap, some even legal, any potential vendor will rip your hand off at the thought of finally selling their property.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Hi Goldeneye,
We're also looking to move back across the pond after 25 years here in Canada and like you are considering Spain or UK. In the UK we have family but Spain is more appealing due to the climate. One of the reasons we are considering the move is to escape the cold and long winters. With the cheap travel over in Europe compared to here in Canada it would be easy to go back to the UK for visits while living in Spain if we so wished. We have visited Spain on many occasions and have always loved the people and culture and like you the great food etc. It's never a easy decision to make such a big move, but having made it once before we feel life is too short to not experience another country while we can.

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

I had to double check, you're thinking is just like mine..

What parts of Spain are you considering?
We have sorted out healthcare and that is doable.. The only other concern we have is IHT .. Any future Inheritance we may get.. Although not a subject that people are comfortable with and as much as I would like my M.I.L to go on forever, I don't want to just 'give' away a large chunk to the Spanish government..
The law as it stands in the UK is the threshold (£325,000 in 2013-14). The tax is payable at 40 per cent on the amount over this threshold... or 36 per cent if the estate qualifies for a reduced rate as a result of a charitable donation.
In Canada, there is no inheritance tax. Instead the CRA treats the estate as a sale and a final tax return is done once all assets are sold..
Canada does not have a death tax or an estate inheritance tax. In Canada, no inheritance tax is levied on the beneficiaries;

In Spain however it is treated very differently, a lot of people residing in Spain think that they are only liable if it is a property of a deceased estate that is in Spain, they don't realize that on this particular area there is no treaty and double dipping occurs.. The estate would be taxed before passing to beneficiaries and once you receive it, it's then taxed again as 'income'
For this reason we are planning on initially going the 183 day rule and staying tax residents of Canada..

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Maybe worth considering

Capital Gains Tax

There is no Capital Gains tax in Gibraltar.

Estate Duty

With effect from 1 April 1997, Estate Duty was abolished in Gibraltar.

A pension from any statutory pension scheme or provident or other fund approved by the Commissioner and received by an individual who is -

aged 60 or over; or
compulsorily retired at age 55 by operation of section 8 (2) of the Pensions Act, shall not form part of the assessable income of the individual and shall be taxed at 0%

https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/taxation

Re: From Canada to....U.K. or Spain ?
 

Hey Goldeneye, I guess I have to have more posts to email you. With regards to the inheritance tax in the UK, you're correct with the 325 but if the deceased had a spouse that had passed away previously, then you can use their unclaimed tax allowance and so the tax threshold becomes considerably greater. I too have been shoveling snow these past few weeks and I have to agree it was fun once but not now. The winters in Canada are great if you ski etc but if not, we tend to become housebound and cabin fever sets in! The thought of exchanging snow boots for shorts is very appealing.