Originally Posted by Stillgame

I agree with your opening line. I also think that the EU would have shown more flexibility if they hadn't been convinced that the UK would overwhelmingly vote Remain - we can thank Cameron for that.
I am convinced that along with a common currency, the underlying reason behind Freedom Of Movement was also a clever ploy by the EU to water down the sovereignty of individual countries. I have yet to hear a compelling argument why FOM has to be so closely entwined with Free Trade, apart from an ideology.
The EU is a powerful and formidable organisation. It's rule book is primarily designed for it's own self preservation. It would probably take 5 years plus for a country to cleanly break from the EU and start to grow its economy again. It will be miracle if the UK succeeds - too many enemies within, apart from the EU itself.

Originally Posted by BritInParis

The four ‘pillars’ are freedom of movement of people, goods, services and capital. Despite many claims of their “indivisiblity” only the first two have been fully implemented.

Originally Posted by Hornets_Nest

Not a great deal of detail to this article but I imagine the poor exchange rate is making life difficult for some UK migrants to the EU if their budgets are tight. People currently living in the UK who are planning to move are also split between those not wanting to 'miss the boat' and those who want to wait and see what Brexit brings. My own view is that there will be some variation between countries but that there is a long way to go in terms of the negotiations. For people wishing to move large amounts of capital of course the exchange rate is a problem which also impacts on other UK based income sources.

I'd take this article with a LARGE pinch of salt and have posted for other people to comment.

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2018/...xchange-rates/

Originally Posted by bobd22

Had the UK gone into the Euro I don't believe that there would have been a referendum. I say that because we would simply have been too entwined to get out. Just looking how complex breaking away now is without having to reinstate our own currency I think would have made it just too difficult. Without doubt part of the reasoning behind having common currency.
John I too remember both times you mention coming out of the ERM and the low £ Euro rate. As you say it was difficult both times if one had a mortgage. Unfortunately when we bought in Spain we had a mortgage for first 2 1/2 years. Within 8 months £ nosedived. In fact as you say it fell to around 1.02. My exchange to pay the mortgage was setup monthly I was offered not long after buying to set a rate but thought it will simply go up and down as always so I declned. One of my exchanges occurred automatically on the very day it hit it's lowest I seem to remember I actually got 0.98 for my pound. It certainly focussed my vision as when we bought we had got 1.43. Our mortgage was small but it certainly made a huge difference. Luckily it recovered to around 1.15 when I paid off the mortgage 18 months or so later. To be honest in those turbulent days of huge falls in exchange rate I remember every day watching it fall and fall thinking I wish we were in the Euro at least I would know what I was paying. In reality you are correct not being in the Euro is a good thing for the UK as a Nation, but at times like that unfortunately one thinks of their own situation. It is all part of life but something that certainly if anyone buys with a Euro mortgage MUST consider . Like yourself I do not believe this headline but for some the exchange rate will have dire affects of their ability to enjoy their life in Spain. Hopefully some sort of deal will be done and sterling will gain from that, I suppose it depends on individuals situations as to whether they can deal with the situation. On the plus side it has not gone as low as it did last time or indeed as predicted. Also this fall as a result of the referendum is from a lower starting point.
It is important for people buying (there has been a lot of recent posts re buying) take into account how much the exchange rate can affect both their purchase and mental well being. being.

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl

However we both know of people that are selling up, not because of Brexit. They can recoup a fair chunk of that loss because at the time they bought the rate was roughly 1.45. They probably would want to see it get back to parity to get more £'s. As you say everything depends on ones personal situation
Jon

Originally Posted by dougal03

Just want to address a comment made by Stillgame who said that people are "misguided" if they believe that working abroad would be difficult after Brexit. I came with my family before Spain joined the EU,a bit like the boot being on the other foot as it will be soon.And actually we did find it quite difficult despite taking over a licence from an operating Spanish enterprise.For example,the renewal annual licence fee for the business cost the Spanish owner something like 30 euros,we were charged 300 euros or the same at that time in pesetas.We didn't have a leg to stand on ,no authority to complain to because,although the UK was "in the club",Spain was not.Maybe you found things easier if indeed you also came at that time.The foreigners mostly were retired,often ex-forces,or people coming to operate their own business,even professionals were advised that it was more straight forward to buy into an already operating Spanish business.And we had to offer any employment firstly to a Spanish National.These sort of conditions may well come back once we leave the EU.My grandchildren are all in UK,Scottish & Spanish & I follow everything that is being played out as I have concerns about the future for each of them if they want to go further afield than the British Isles.I have been around when two countries joined the EU,both not in good shape beforehand,that was UK in the 70's & Spain in the 80's.In England in the 1970's we were paying a mortgage rate of 15%,sometimes sitting in the dark because of electricity cutouts,& a 3 day week for some workers.In Spain we saw very elderly ladies bashing almond trees with a pole beside the roadside to collect a few nuts to sell & do you remember the lovely stitched bed covers sold in local markets?They were embroidered by elderly women up in mountain villages who laboured away to get a few pesetas extra for their family.Each country prospered by belonging to the bigger unit called the EU.I am fortunate in that mostly the sterling rate doesn't impact too much on me personally & I can appreciate how that is not the case for many other retired folks.But I shake my head in disbelief when I see how many of my fellow countrymen fondly imagine it will all be wonderful once rid of the EU & its' regulations.

Originally Posted by bobd22

Very good post. I too think that many people forget and some just never knew what a state we were in during the early 70,,'s when we joined the then Common Market. I too remember well the 3 day week and coming home from work to find the village in absolute darkness as electric cut off. Of course we could still use the local pub with its coal fire hand pulled beer and manual tills all lit by candles, we were not back then so reliant on electricity as we are today.

Originally Posted by bobd22

Actually the power cuts I was referring to we're early 1972 which were nothing to do with oil but the miners strike . 1973 was the oil crisis. By then I had decided industry was not for me and I had joined up. My comment was a general comment on the state of our country at the time we were entering into the Common Market. The UK was going through turbulent changes moving away from coal and the jobs that depended upon it. Not just the mine workers put the associated heavy industries etc and railway industry was also moving from steam to diesel etc. The car and motorcycle industry was in turmoil and eventually went under. The workers answer back then was simply to withdraw labour and strike be it miners factory workers bin men etc. I am not saying that the Common Market/EU stopped that neither did they cause it. The fact was it was progression and modernisation of an aging technology. The point I am making is listen to the extreme brexiters and they look back to those days as the UK living in some sort of land of milk and honey eutopia. Those industries had to change and my view is that being in the Common Market/EU has had benefits to our nation in moving forward. Various UK governments have since then made good and bad decisions running our country, that is neither due to the EU for the good or bad. Was it all bad back in those days no was it all great no would the progression in modernisation of industry have been better or worse had we not been in the Common Market? Who knows because we were but that is not to say all that's bad in the UK is down to the EU same applies to all that's good. Freedom of movement was messed up by the Blair government not applying the rules that could have slowed incomers from the Eastern European countries that joined in 04 followed fairly shortly by the worldwide crash. We and the rest of Europe have also had to cope with the huge influx of incomers both illegal imigrants and legal refugees often coming from countries that we as a Nation have helped destroy such. The world is a smaller place and people migrate more easily these days. Outside the EU there will still be migration into the UK all be it probably less from EU and more from other countries we end up dealing with African countries, India wherever.

Originally Posted by Stillgame

Just to say that back in 70's I, like most others voted in favour of the Common Market. I still would today.