macgirl

It is from an article on migration.
Why is it?

macgirl

It could be because british people ignore personal questions...
Integration is hard for everyone even from people from other parts of Spain. I just wanted to know your opinion.

Rotor

That`s not strictly true ,younger generations seem to mix well (children to 40 somethings) but many from the older generations don't seem to learn Spanish or are too lazy.

DeadVim

I will be losing sleep until I get some answers to this, it's a hot topic for sure and one the world cannot ignore.

While people are concentrating on passing fads such as environmental change and the promotion of 'green' energy sources it is taking away the focus from issues such as this.

I wish you luck in your quest to get the Big Questions definitively answered.

jackytoo

Difficult to comment without reading the article. Not sure why the British are always singled out for these sweeping statements. All nations are more or less the same. In the UK do you see Pakistanis integrating, they mix with people who have the same culture and values. The same with spanish people they congregrate together with other spanish when in the UK.

Many say they are integrated because their spanish neighbour calls them "amigo". Personally I can't see anyone being integrated unless they are near bi-lingual or have intermarried in their adopted country.

agoreira

Read an article this week in one of the free papers, and the author was asking what is wrong with mixing with your own kind, the Chinese in Liverpool and London have been doing forever, as have many other nationalities. He referred to the people that speak a bit of Spanish, claim to have loads of Spanish amigos as "plastic Spaniards". We were in a bar the other night, and a Brit was giving it in his very poor Spanish to the camareros, and they just stood there nodding, but as soon as he left, they all fell about laughing! He probably thinks he is good friends with them!

macgirl

It's a ppt, a paper presented at a conference some years ago:

"Anya Ahmed, University of Salford , England, UK.
The English in the Costa Blanca: communities or ghettos? "

You can find it here:

http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/chp/hsa/spring08/papers.htm
It's the first one.

macgirl

So it is mainly because of the language?

Chinese learn spanish in two months!

avocados

The question should be.........What is Integration?

In reality I think it's a word used by egomaniacs to other expats to indicate that I'm more "Spanish" than you.

It is too much of a generalised term and tells absolutely nothing about the individual's life in Spain.

Ability to speak Spanish or any other local language gives no indication of integration; nor does the statement......."all my friends are Spanish".

I just concentrate on living my life as I see fit, here in Spain. Apart from my OH, I have little interest in anybody else.

Ironically, I have explored and seen more of my island than most of the bona fide locals. So, if they can't be bothered to experience their own culture, environment, or any people outside their own little community,

why are foreigners completely obsesed with this "integration" thingy ?!!

macgirl

>>>why are foreigners completely obsesed with this "integration" thingy

Foreigners?
That paper was written in England by English researchers.

Mitzyboy

Can you use the quote system correctly pse, if you are not sure then pm a concierge or moderator - thanks

Mitzyboy

The thing about integration is that it has been discussed so many times, and no one can reach agreement as to what it actually is. The same as "Real Spain"

Frankly, I am in the CB North and I know of no real English Ghettos. All the people I know try to fit in with Spanish life as best they can, but they will never be Spanish ... they will always be foreigners

jackytoo

Not just the language but an essential part to integrate. The Chinese may learn a language fast but they do not mix with the spanish except to serve them.

Lynn R

I wish I could say that all the people I know "try to fit in with Spanish life as best they can" - but I can't. With a few exceptions, mostly people who have a Spanish partner, most of the British people living in my area have almost no contact with Spanish people other than those serving them in shops and bars. Despite living here for over 5 years, in some cases much longer, about the only Spanish words they know are Hola, dos cervezas or cafe con leche. They only nod and smile at their next door neighbours as their lack of Spanish prevents them doing more, and spend endless hours congregating in bars moaning about "the Spanish" and their unsatisfactory (to them) ways of doing things. They will go out of their way, and often pay more, to go to a shop or other business "because they speak English" and only use British tradesmen when they want any work done on their houses as they seem to think "the Spanish" will rip them off, when often the reverse is true.

Whatever integration is, that certainly isn't it, IMO. I don't eat nothing but Spanish food at home (but I don't eat much traditional British food either), I read books in English but newspapers in Spanish, I watch English language TV but go out to local Spanish concerts (our British neighbours say they never know anything is on because they can't read the posters - honestly!), take part in public meetings about what is going on in our area, and like to give work to local Spanish tradesmen when I can, provided they do a good job that is, which all of them have so far and at a very good price too. I've just managed a 2 day stay in hospital for an operation and the prior consultations with the surgeon without having to take anyone along to translate for me - and the wrong bit didn't get cut off so that has to be a result! I won't say I never find some of the labyrinthine bureaucratic systems in Spain frustrating, but so do most other people, Spanish included.

I suppose my idea of integration is getting to the stage when I can manage to conduct the day to day necessities of life, and interact with the community I am living in, in an independent way without being cut off from things because of the language barrier.

macgirl

Maybe is a matter of shyness.
Spanish people like to laugh at everything, even themselves, you don't have to take it personally. Besides, you can find morons everywhere, Spain, England,...