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British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Old May 4th 2021, 1:38 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

In my post #30 above I did not say that Spain should have lower income requirements for UK retirees than they have for the rest of the world. My main point was that most UK couples who settled in Spain when the UK was a member of the EU did so because they did not have the wealth/income to own a property in the UK and one in Spain. Selling their UK property and taking up Spanish residency enabled them to enjoy a higher standard of living than they would have had as pensioners living in the UK. Therefore, my conclusion is that, in future, far fewer UK retirees will settle permanently in Spain than was the case when the UK was an EU member. Also, UK residents are likely to be deterred from purchasing Spanish properties on a non-resident basis because of the inflexibility of the 90/180 rule, especially as they are obliged to pay Spanish taxes and utility bills on a 365/365 basis.

What of the future? I would expect far fewer properties to be purchased in Spain by UK citizens over the next 10 years and a gradual reduction in the number of UK citizens living permanently in Spain as the older ones 'fall off the perch', but are not replaced by younger UK retirees. This will have a negative impact on the economy of the Spanish Costas generally but may be terminal for a lot of British owned businesses that rely on UK customers.

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Old May 4th 2021, 2:01 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

I don't think the Spanish economy will suffer much by not accepting pensioners with low levels of disposable income. Two couples on a golfing weekend in Marbella would spend similar sums to a retired couple with limited funds in one year.

The cost of holiday home ownership is just a given, you either do it or you don't. Personally I would never do it again. A hassle free fortnight in a decent hotel costs about the same as holding on to a holiday home, more so if you have a pool. People can still rent villas for 3 months at a time, providing a regular income for a resident/owner and regular tax to the state.

The bottom line is a sad one, those who like the idea of not being 100% settled are suffering because the majority voted to leave the EU.
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Old May 4th 2021, 2:05 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Originally Posted by avionisto
In my post #30 above I did not say that Spain should have lower income requirements for UK retirees than they have for the rest of the world. My main point was that most UK couples who settled in Spain when the UK was a member of the EU did so because they did not have the wealth/income to own a property in the UK and one in Spain. Selling their UK property and taking up Spanish residency enabled them to enjoy a higher standard of living than they would have had as pensioners living in the UK. Therefore, my conclusion is that, in future, far fewer UK retirees will settle permanently in Spain than was the case when the UK was an EU member. Also, UK residents are likely to be deterred from purchasing Spanish properties on a non-resident basis because of the inflexibility of the 90/180 rule, especially as they are obliged to pay Spanish taxes and utility bills on a 365/365 basis.

What of the future? I would expect far fewer properties to be purchased in Spain by UK citizens over the next 10 years and a gradual reduction in the number of UK citizens living permanently in Spain as the older ones 'fall off the perch', but are not replaced by younger UK retirees. This will have a negative impact on the economy of the Spanish Costas generally but may be terminal for a lot of British owned businesses that rely on UK customers.
It is no doubt true that the number of British retiring to Spain will reduce in the coming years and that the overall number will drop as older ones return or die. However, full time Brits living and retired in Spain is not as large as you think and they are not vociferous spenders as your own argument is that they dont have alot of wealth. The majority of Brits in Spain are actually working ones scattered around Madrid and Barcelona who rarely appear on this forum being young professionals. Certain areas that are English ghettos might be effected but I doubt the Spanish are worried. There are plenty of Scandanavians buying up stuff at the moment and the Russians love Spain. The English voted to leave, The Sun and Express gleefully mock Europe so as far as I'm concerned if retirement is a caravan park with chips and burgers that's the bed that was made.!!
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:08 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

There is an article in the olive press about the campaign to get the 90 day rule day changed to 180. That would help a lot of people.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

I would also think you will see a decline in the number of Brits buying property either to retire to or as holiday homes with the 3rd country rules that now apply. However as has been said as far as Spain is concerned that will in my view be picked up by other than UK nationals buying. One other thing that will affect the situation is when those of us that are protected by the WA pass on and our properties are inherited, those inheriting the property will not have the same protection as we do under the WA. So it will have a knock on affect there as well. I don't myself see Spain treating UK nationals any different to other 3rd country Nationals. I do agree though that some businesses geared up to cater for Brits will eventually suffer unless they adapt to the change in number of Brit Expats but I'm sure they will adapt.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Originally Posted by Stingychips
There is an article in the olive press about the campaign to get the 90 day rule day changed to 180. That would help a lot of people.
There may well be a campaign in Spain, but it would be the EU that would have to change the Schengen rules with the agreement of all the other Schengen states.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:31 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

There is also the fact that the combined populations of Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland amount to less than half the population of the UK. Add in the fact that UK property values are much higher than most European countries giving our citizens access to a lot more equity. I wonder where all the buyers of Spanish properties are going to come from to replace UK purchasers.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

If you have plenty of equity in the UK, just buy a €500k property in Spain and they will give you residency, subject to a few rules such as needing health cover.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:43 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Where I am there are lots of Dutch and German buyers and more recently (last 5 years) Belgian and French moving into the area or buying holiday homes. We have a broad range of non Spanish in the immediate area including the above, Swiss and American families as well as Brits.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

I would also add that there are properties here that to my knowledge have been for sale for 15 + years. Not the odd one quite a few. It's still a buyers market and will those who inherit a property simply want to get what they can for it if they can't live in it full time or find schengen rules prohibitive to use as holiday home. Things will change certainly it won't happen immediately but give it time.
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Old May 4th 2021, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Why are people so convinced that a EU member state is going to alter its laws to assist the desires of retired UK pensioners? It will not happen. The UK has left the EU.. The EU is a project that exist by a mutual collaboration between its members. They may have some wriggle room but not when it alters the core values of the project. A petition to change a law so it benefits one 3rd country will never happen. Just accept what is and adjust to the new laws. One moment it's people crowing about how the UKs vaccination program could never have happened if they were in the EU then its moaning about why they cant stay longer or use their driving licences or pay less tax. You cant have your cake and eat it
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Old May 4th 2021, 5:05 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Originally Posted by Chipmonk
Why are people so convinced that a EU member state is going to alter its laws to assist the desires of retired UK pensioners? It will not happen. The UK has left the EU.. The EU is a project that exist by a mutual collaboration between its members. They may have some wriggle room but not when it alters the core values of the project. A petition to change a law so it benefits one 3rd country will never happen. Just accept what is and adjust to the new laws. One moment it's people crowing about how the UKs vaccination program could never have happened if they were in the EU then its moaning about why they cant stay longer or use their driving licences or pay less tax. You cant have your cake and eat it
I totally agree. Schengen rules are not set or enforced by individual countries.
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Old May 4th 2021, 5:18 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Originally Posted by avionisto
There is also the fact that the combined populations of Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland amount to less than half the population of the UK. Add in the fact that UK property values are much higher than most European countries giving our citizens access to a lot more equity. I wonder where all the buyers of Spanish properties are going to come from to replace UK purchasers.
Those who can afford it will still buy and others will still go on holiday. Half of the British population do not own holiday homes, so that's not an issue. It's not as if the world is getting bigger either and plenty of investors always looking for bargains.
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Old May 4th 2021, 5:58 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Originally Posted by Fred James
There may well be a campaign in Spain, but it would be the EU that would have to change the Schengen rules with the agreement of all the other Schengen states.
Nope. Individual member of Schengen is free to draw up a bilateral visa-waiver agreement concerning third country nationals only applicable within their own borders. For example, a number of Schengen states have special rules for some third country nationals, typically, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians and US citizens. So for example, Australians, who have exhausted 90-in-180 days in Schengen, can stay further 90 days in France because of an agreement.
EU-Third Countries Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreements Explained (etiasvisa.com)
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Old May 4th 2021, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: British Citizens Can No Longer Move to Spain Unless.....

Originally Posted by Joppa
Nope. Individual member of Schengen is free to draw up a bilateral visa-waiver agreement concerning third country nationals only applicable within their own borders. For example, a number of Schengen states have special rules for some third country nationals, typically, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians and US citizens. So for example, Australians, who have exhausted 90-in-180 days in Schengen, can stay further 90 days in France because of an agreement.
EU-Third Countries Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreements Explained (etiasvisa.com)
That's interesting information.
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