Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Failure Issues and Success Factors


Issues
- Financially. It's a mugs game.
- Most expat bars lose money
- Even fewer repay capital and lease holders full labour hours, at market rates
- There are too many bars in Tourist areas
- Demand for bar leases is higher than their business worth (you should actually be paid a premium to take up paying a lease!)
- Bar real estate owners churn leases and usually make min 10% of lease cost on each failure, hence are immune to oversupply.
- Many bars do not even recover marginal costs on each item sold, let alone provide full contribution to fixed costs.
- The majority of lease holders do not speak Spanish
- Hours worked are excessive.
- Many bars are not fully registered and compliant with the law
- Prices are too low and cannot be raised industry wise or demand will fall
- Price is elastic. Ie changes in price have a relatively large effect on the quantity of a good demanded.
- Time is not costed (you will be the only one not going to the beach)
- The business model is limited by people proximity and charging by drink or food, not time. Changing that has never been done. Yet.


Success Factors
- If you don't have the money to lose, then just get a bar job.

If you do have the money: -
- Design and fix the process (flow diagram)
- Write an electronic plan with milestones
- Monitor the plan every day
- Don't believe you are different! Everyone does.
- If you're not a people person or shy, forget it.
- If you have health issues, forget it.
- If you have drink or drugs issues, forget it.
- Work in a bar nearby at least two months
- Location!
- Don't waste time on silly names and refits
- Go either where you have a monopoly or are are central to a strip
- Competition can sometimes be good
- Learn Spanish first, it's the least difficult language (including English)
- Ensure you are Big enough and have a music license
- Don't buy empty bars
- Ignore figures you are given
- Copy success dont clone failure
- Be different but check changes work
- Keep trying new stuff
- Don't get lazy.
- Work co-operatively (marketing, supply deals, buying, facilities, entertainment, security, advice, staffing, opening hours, technology sharing, whatever)
- Undertake proper market research
- Be cheeky. Talk to everyone, neighbours, customers, anyone.
- Employ someone with multi languages
- Cater for Northern Europeans, Japanese and Americans
- Write off thought of capital return
- Be willing to accept capital depreciation
- Think about the supply chain options rather than retail
- Tourist bar market is finite sum (you alone can't invent tourists)
- You only make money by moving it from other equally desperate bar owners. Cruel world.
- Focus on lifestyle and weather benefits
- People attract people. Arrange for the bar to look busy.
- Be the first bar in the World that never makes a customer wait (customers hate to wait). The only job that bars should be good at ie Getting what you want and Paying, is their worst.
- Employ staff rather than working yourself. If you can't pay someone, you shouldn't be doing it.
- Never compete on price but always give the best value (ie give more not charge less)
- Game changer idea's fail even more often. Shame but that's customers, they follow not lead.
- Game changer idea's may be great but too early or too small (ie you can't have just one starbucks)


There is one major proviso. That is, you are running a life, not a business.

Sometimes you just have to do it. Stuff the cost.

All other Issues and Success factors gratefully received.

Aspendelic

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Pretty good.

Only one thing jumps out at me:

Some bars can be run quite well by just a hard-working couple. Employing people costs an awful lot of money.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I find this comment interesting
One reason I like the cafe-bars in places like Madrid is the way you get extremely fast service, assuming you know the etiquette (Hola! Muy buenos dias - Un cortado y un "con leche", ! Cuando puedas...) On the other hand it can take longer to get the bill paid.
I suppose that getting served takes longer now, especially in Brit pubs, because there are so many more options (and different ways of paying). The days when a place would only sell a couple of beers, gin, whisky and rum, are long gone in most places. Very hard to get served quickly in Wetherspoons as there are so many different things on offer - yet they remain popular because of low prices. The likes of Starbucks have higher prices, yet are still fashionable.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

very well thought out, would you like to try,,,,,

• don't invite friends/relatives out to visit
• don't drink the profits
• don't play with the customers
• give up golf, chess or anyother games you used to play
• become a hermit and only come out at night
• play the music your customers like not what you like
• rapidly grow a thick skin and don't lose your temper
  

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

To the to do list I would add,....
Always make an effort to give punters a warm welcome the moment they walk through the door.

From the don't list I would remove, "never buy an empty bar".
By far the biggest success stories I saw in Tenerife came from previously empty bars,....both big and small.
I don't say it's a must do either,... but certainly don't rule it out.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Just eyed the list again:

So true.:thumbup:

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Some 'don'ts gleaned from observing one British couple who managed to go bust within a year running a bar where I live:-

- stick to your advertised opening hours, do not turn up half an hour after your posted opening time or close an hour early because there are no customers
- don't employ someone to work in the bar at nights because you're not willing to put the hours in yourself, and give them strict instructions to close at midnight on Fridays when the smallish 'expat' community in town comes in for a get together and a table of at least 12 people, many drinking spirits, has to be asked to leave as the bar staff have to close up
- when you are actually working during the day, don't sit on the 'wrong' side of the bar reading a newspaper or magazine, and all but tut and sigh if a customer comes in and disturbs you
- don't leave your 16 year old daughter in charge of the bar as she is wont to turn customers away because she 'isn't prepared to cook for 6 people' (and we're talking burgers and chips here, not cordon bleu).

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Interesting, what is the OP doing, NVQ in business studies or something?

One thing that is vital to running a bar is personality, you need a personality that is popular with customers, certainly in smaller bars and being 'right' for the job cannot be taught, or 'factored' in.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

agreed :D

& I suspect you could be right about the NVQ or whatever...............

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Why do you say most expat bars lose money? Are you talking about Spain in general or a specific city/area?

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Having drank my way through 45 years worth of expat bars in Spain (hic!), I have to agree with all of the above.
Personally - I don't like a TV (I can watch it at home) or a 'sports bar' (having had sand kicked in my face quite enough times, thank you).
To my mind, the worst thing a bar or restaurant can do is be closed when a customer arrives expecting it to be open (even when he's got the day wrong).
He won't come back.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Needs more than personality to run a successful bar in Spain especially on the costas where there are another 50 within walking distance and hardly any punters:(

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Whilst I agree with 98% of what has been said, it is not entirely mission impossible and I have seen one or two major successes involving guys with previous experience who not only gave the public exactly what they wanted, but only needed to open for about 6 hours each evening, and in no time at all did littke more than supervise as the profits rolled in big-time.

Having said that I would stongly advise those with no previous experience at all to completely forget the idea.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Having considerable experience in the general field, as well as using them on a social basis, I would estimate the failure rate of Brit bars in Spain at something like 95 percent. Most of the reasons have already been discussed.

In my area, bouncing with expats, the only 'Brit bars' operating successfully are a large fish and chip operation and a large entertainment venue, the other hundreds have all failed and will continue to fail.

But it's a British dream, running a bar in the sun, and there's nothing wrong with it if you've got 50 grand to lose. It's often a fresh change in life, a broken marriage and a new and younger version to relight the fires. I've seen it so many times, it's unbelievable (and I must admit I sometimes feel envious, a young lady in a mini skirt and an older man with his tongue hanging out). Or even other way round.

Let's face it, you can't take it with you.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

But the sorrow, heart ache and sense of failure when that dream turns into a nightmare. spoil the whole thing! and you're left with nothing! its all gone. No dream is worth that, especially when its so easily avoidable. you have to get real cos dreams dont make good reality do they!

Jo xxx

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

A sensible comment, Jo, but the cold reality of living in a cold country and an unhappy relationship persuades people to try something different.

I'm sure most of them realise the futility of the venture but go ahead in the search for happiness. What's that old cliché?

Better to have loved and failed, than not to have loved at all. Forgive me if I've got that wrong.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I think it should be,..

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

or

Better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

Sometimes true, sometimes not, I imagine.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Come to think of it, I know of an example only a ten-minute walk from where I live. A large Spanish owned bar used to be successful before the recession, run by the Spanish owners who own several bars.

They rented it out to several British tenants who all failed, miserably. So they closed the bar to save on autonomo and other taxes.

But one of the Spanish brothers with responsibility for the bar found a young English girlfriend and he now opens the bar a couple of days a week, only for two or three hours at a time, because his girlfriend likes to run the bar.

The reason he only opens for two or three hours is because his English girlfriend gets pissed and he has to take her home.

She's half his age and wears a mini skirt halfway up her arse.

I'm annoyed because of the irregular hours; I have to walk past several days a week to try and catch her.

(Thanks for the correction Dick, it's part of a song, isn't it?)

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Regardless. the reality is that you have X amount of money to spend on your dream and/or your future. You spend it on a dream that fails. so you have nothing for your future. Hows that gonna be then??? Return to the UK, borrowing the money for the flight and possibly leaving huge depts behind, blaming each other for the failings, stay at relatives houses til you can get a sparsely furnished housing association flat, claim dole money, search for work........ Thats conducive to a happy relaxed life - NOT!!! Did anyone think it would work or was it just a dream, cos in dreams things dont have to work, they just have to be!!

Anyone who thinks that it will be easy and relaxing to start a bar in Spain and who havent worked in the industry, dont speak or understand Spanish or their financial sytems shouldnt even consider it! Give the money to charity instead!

Jo xxx

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Whilst the ways of the Spanish beaurocratic system are complex and numerous I would say that for those with sufficient motivation, they can be mastered to a reasonable and useable level within about a year or so with expert guidance.
What cannot be picked up so quickly is the experience and know how of how to make a bar tick and as previously mentioned, personallity and character also need to come high on the list.
It is not without good reason that most expats unfortunately seem to be staring into half empty glasses when the Spanish bar business comes under scrutiny. :(

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

There can't be figures available, but I suspect most British buyers of Spanish bars do so without a business plan or previous accounts to consider. If it's a closed bar, closed for a while, you're stepping into the dark.

It's a dream for dreamers. So we tick them off and castigate them for being stupid. And still they come? And always will come.

They won't listen to us, no matter how experienced we may be. It's like telling people to stop playing the lottery, the chances of winning are much like buying a successful bar.

In a 'pants down' moment, I confess to buying one in Estepona, a thousand years ago. I spunked away the usual 50K in the company of a beautiful lady from deepest Devon.

It was a mistake, I only wish I could make it again.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

A very brave admission in view of all thats gone before.

Unless the beautiful lady came as part of the fixtures and fittings, I think I would have been inclined to carefully guide her in the opposite direction and put her undoubted talent and energy to more satisfactory (or should that be satisfying), purposes.:D

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

One of the problems that British bar-owners face is that - fair or not - they will not be attracting the Spanish consumer. In the smaller resorts in particular, no local Spaniard will use Brit bars (why should they?), which leaves the potential number of customers at the much lower rate of foreign inhabitants plus the occasional tourist trade (tourists, whether they like the bar or not, will be back in Wolverhampton next Thursday anyway, so won't be loyal customers). Hence the small circle of regulars, quiz nights and book swaps.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

Why are Brits so critical of their fellow countrymen?!!

If no expat opened a bar/cafe there would be no expat bars or cafes.

Since the experts claim that there are "millions" of these establishments all over Spain, there must be a lot of successful ones about.

I think people are just concentrating on the failures, a bit of schadenfraude perhaps.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I think you may hit upon the reason why the Irish pubs seem to be such a success in somewhere like Madrid, but the expat bars struggle on the costas. Interestingly the Spanish love to use the Irish pubs in Madrid, plus of course there is a community of expats who work there and so can be regular customers.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I once saw a Spanish customer order a meal in the British-run bar I commented on earlier. Her face when a "cheese salad" consisting of limp lettuce, sliced tomato and a small pile of grated, plastic orange cheese was put in front of her was priceless. I haven't come across many Brits running bars who are able to speak to Spanish customers in their own language, either. If one of the most vital skills of running a bar successfully is to be sociable and welcoming to all your customers, you're not going to be able to cater to the Spanish market if you can't talk to them, are you?

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

That always does surprise me. I know pubs where the landlords come from India or Europe, and they've always learnt the language. Can you imagine a UK pub where the bar-person doesn't speak English? The only place I know that gets away with it to a degree is the Chinese takeaway where you order by numbers - but they always know how to charge in English!

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I'm not so sure about this. If we happened to be observing a continual trickle of Dutch/Swedish/German/name another nationality coming to Spain and setting up 'foreign' bars which subsequently failed for lack of sufficient 'foreign', tourist or Spanish trade, wouldn't we be saying the same things? And as for being schadenfreude, I don't think so. There but for the grace of god, or even 'I told you so', or 'brought it on themselves' or any manner of other things, but ENJOYING someone else's failure? Come on!

..........Ok there must be successes, of course.......... how do we find the comparison of numbers, though?


and YES YES YES ref language. Sadly though our Brit bar (and the Dutch one) where they've both made real attempts not only to speak Spanish which is pretty damned important in the campo, but they also have succeeded in getting (some) Spanish trade, there isn't exactly a huge trade to be shared with all the also-struggling Spanish bars.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I'm not commenting much on this thread because our bar is in a unique situation and our experience is not relevant to the vast majority of Brit bars in Spain. I agree with much that has been said but would like to make a couple of suggestions. First, I can't help thinking that there is much generalisation going on. There are undoubtedly British bars which do succeed in Spain - I know of bars which were going in 2000 when I first arrived in Spain and are still going strong. Secondly, things have changed dramatically in the last few years - I don't think comments would have been quite so negative 10 years ago.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

After the British bar I posted about closed down, it re-opened as a kebab/pizza place (open from 12.00 noon to goodness knows when) run by Pakistanis. The staff seem to change every few months and if they arrive not speaking Spanish, they are always up to speed within a couple of months. The majority of their customers are Spanish. QED.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I was waiting for his talk on S.W.A.T. analysis lol.

Some years ago we were in Spain on holiday and used a little English bar in the morning for a bite to eat etc. My wife got on well with the wife who was running the bar and one morning this poor gal burst into tears while chatting with my Welsh love goddess. She hated the job, hated working seven days a week, hated not having a holiday in years, hated being stuck in a hot kitchen frying breakfasts and making pie and chips and other de rigueur meals for brit tourists and she hated the fact that with all the work they put in they were only just keeping there heads above water. Spanish bars were selling beer cheaper than they could buy it in wholesale and the competition was cut throat. They'd been there years and still no swimming pool to go home to. This was in Majorca about fifteen years ago, I doubt she stuck it out another year.

My lass is wonderful, a senior mental health specialist nurse BUT...people with problems just seem to latch on to her. We go on a plane and there is one person who has a panic attack guess who they are sitting next to (four times over the years), depressed bar keepers guess who they talk to, even a depressed check out girl at Tesco...


The OP was right in that running a bar in Spain (or anywhere these days) is a mugs game.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

I'm convinced that Brits who come to run a bar in Spain are just the same as those who have a gap year in middle age. They've done their bit back home; work, kids, fading relationships, voting for idiots, and reach a time when only years of drudgery lie ahead.

They've saved up a bit of money and can either travel the world, or run a bar in Spain. Either way their savings will be gone after a year or so, but their lives are bound to be enriched by the experience.

They're brave people, all of them, but bravery usually contains an element of stupidity and irresponsibility. They would be the first ones to jump out of the trenches during the wars, and the first ones to be machine gunned; but the bar owners don't get medals for bravery, they just go skint.

Re: Brit Bars in Spain - Some Issues and Observations
 

SWAT or SWOT ?
isnt SWAT something from Police 5 or something

the only people still in the game are the mug makers, and they have all moved to China.

it sounds like that is a place where they stepped into water out of their depth and it just floated along from there. Sad, because as with other jobs, it takes a great deal to get yourself out of the khaki.
you know what the problem is but you just cannot shut up shop for a month and come back with a new menu, new hours, new attitudes.

sorry, but running a bar seems a nice idea when half pissed and seeing all that money going one way. a few sessions from the other side should put you right.
My BH spent many years as a barmaid, she says she would rather run a dogs home than a bar/pub. The clients show their appreciation.

.