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Bárcenas Tells All

Bárcenas Tells All

Old Jul 6th 2013, 9:53 pm
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Default Bárcenas Tells All

Luis Bárcenas, now in prison for a week, had a long chat with the director of El Mundo before he was sent down. It seems that all is true - agents from wealthy building companies and others would drop by the offices of the Partido Popular in Madrid and leave massive donations... the minister in question would be notified... and the builder or whoever would be chosen for some swollen Government project. There is, according to the director of El Mundo, much more to be told, and Bárcenas says he could cause the Spanish Government to fall.
El Mundo 'Cuatro Horas con Bárcenas'
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Old Jul 7th 2013, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

I think most Spanish people accept that Barcenas is telling the truth, or is about to. It amazes me how the level of shock is not much higher than it appears. Either the corruption scandals have left nothing shockable, or the population accepts that it's the way it has always been. I suspect the latter.

We, the expats, appear more shocked than the natives, I suppose we come from different cultures.
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Old Jul 7th 2013, 12:28 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

am I being too cynical by suggesting that the corruption/backhanders, call it what you will, is more covert in the UK than in Spain. ??

there have been many instances in the UK where brown envelopes have been passed and favours bought
it matters not whether it is the provision of prostitutes in the Profumo Affair or the Thatcher/Cementation affair. Graft is still alive and well in politics, as evidenced by a major contributor to the Bliar Govt winning a contract for hundreds of millions of flu vaccines that were never used.

just some countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece are more open about it. After all it is only in recent times that the brown envelope under the table at house contract signing was stopped - or was it ??
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Old Jul 7th 2013, 12:28 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

I suspect people are not shocked by the "revelations" because they are not revelations at all, merely confirmation of what they knew all along, and the way of "doing business" in Spanish political circles forever. Not just in Spain, either.
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Old Jul 8th 2013, 10:22 pm
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by Lynn R
I suspect people are not shocked by the "revelations" because they are not revelations at all, merely confirmation of what they knew all along, and the way of "doing business" in Spanish political circles forever. Not just in Spain, either.
Exactly. Nobody is shocked about Bárcenas' revelations and nobody will be shocked when there is not a single resignation or prison sentence handed out as a result of this (apart from the one handed out to Bárcenas himself of course).
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 12:36 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by Domino
am I being too cynical by suggesting that the corruption/backhanders, call it what you will, is more covert in the UK than in Spain. ??

there have been many instances in the UK where brown envelopes have been passed and favours bought
it matters not whether it is the provision of prostitutes in the Profumo Affair or the Thatcher/Cementation affair. Graft is still alive and well in politics, as evidenced by a major contributor to the Bliar Govt winning a contract for hundreds of millions of flu vaccines that were never used.

just some countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece are more open about it. After all it is only in recent times that the brown envelope under the table at house contract signing was stopped - or was it ??
What's the UK bit to so with this!

You seem totally unable to post without mentioning the UK even when no one else does on a topic
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 12:59 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by Lynn R
I suspect people are not shocked by the "revelations" because they are not revelations at all, merely confirmation of what they knew all along, and the way of "doing business" in Spanish political circles forever. Not just in Spain, either.
People are shocked enough for the Barcenas story to be on the front page of the newspapers almost every day this year

And there have been many protests across the country, some in Madrid had to be quelled with rubber bullets

If you think Spanish people are not shocked then I suggest you speak to some - or maybe consume some Spanish media

A couple of months ago it looked like the PP would fall, but they just said that the revelations were all lies (like they always do). There is no democracy in Spain, the parties blatently lie to get into power, take bribes and backhanders and then do what the hell they like - all with no consequence for their actions

The small light over the horizon is that politicians are currently going to jail in relatively small numbers, but at least it is happening. However, I really feel that the whole lot should fall and that PP, and even possible PSOE should be forced to disband for their criminal activities, just as the political parties linked to ETA were forced to disband
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 1:05 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

I agree with those who reckon it's only confirmation rather than revelation. Corruption has historically been so endemic in Spanish culture, that it's completely expected in most affairs associated with that paternal entity we refer to as "the government", which we seem to believe is a necessary evil, rather than a representative of our interests ( which is what it's supposed to be ).

I don't know how any completely straight-shooting politician could survive for long. Probably would get zero cooperation from anyone. And Nobody would trust them anyway.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 1:22 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by amideislas
I agree with those who reckon it's only confirmation rather than revelation. Corruption has historically been so endemic in Spanish culture, that it's completely expected in most affairs associated with that paternal entity we refer to as "the government", which we seem to believe is a necessary evil, rather than a representative of our interests ( which is what it's supposed to be ).

I don't know how any completely straight-shooting politician could survive for long. Probably would get zero cooperation from anyone. And Nobody would trust them anyway.
While this is partly true, it is not that much better in other countries. The difference is that UK and US politicians are better at covering their backs, but the important politicians nearly always end up as multi-millionnaires, they've all been paid off by big businesses and lobbying groups

Look at the members of the US senate paid millions by healthcare companies to vote against a universal health system as an example
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 1:29 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by cricketman
While this is partly true, it is not that much better in other countries. The difference is that UK and US politicians are better at covering their backs, but the important politicians nearly always end up as multi-millionnaires, they've all been paid off by big businesses and lobbying groups

Look at the members of the US senate paid millions by healthcare companies to vote against a universal health system as an example
How much were you paid to say that?
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 1:41 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by cricketman
People are shocked enough for the Barcenas story to be on the front page of the newspapers almost every day this year

And there have been many protests across the country, some in Madrid had to be quelled with rubber bullets

If you think Spanish people are not shocked then I suggest you speak to some - or maybe consume some Spanish media

A couple of months ago it looked like the PP would fall, but they just said that the revelations were all lies (like they always do). There is no democracy in Spain, the parties blatently lie to get into power, take bribes and backhanders and then do what the hell they like - all with no consequence for their actions

The small light over the horizon is that politicians are currently going to jail in relatively small numbers, but at least it is happening. However, I really feel that the whole lot should fall and that PP, and even possible PSOE should be forced to disband for their criminal activities, just as the political parties linked to ETA were forced to disband
What is on the front page of newspapers is not necessarily what is at the forefront of the minds of the majority of the population - just like the preoccupations of the chattering classes in the UK don't matter as much to most people. The Spanish people I've spoken to about this all say exactly the same "Politicos (spit on pavement or make disgusted noises) - they're all the same, crooks". Then they go back to talking about the lack of jobs, the football, whatever.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 5:09 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

I speak to Spanish people every day and it's not only top politicians they regard as corrupt, it's the whole system at every level. It does make them angry, but deep down they seem to accept that it's always been that way.

Hopefully it won't always stay that way, quite a few of the corrupt people, though mostly at a lower level, are already in prison, and there will be a major fiesta if Barcenas is sent down. It could be a landmark.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 5:19 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by HBG
I speak to Spanish people every day and it's not only top politicians they regard as corrupt, it's the whole system at every level. It does make them angry, but deep down they seem to accept that it's always been that way.

Hopefully it won't always stay that way, quite a few of the corrupt people, though mostly at a lower level, are already in prison, and there will be a major fiesta if Barcenas is sent down. It could be a landmark.
I agree that they see this as just an extension of what they know perfectly well goes on at local level, just that the brown envelopes are a lot fatter. A few years ago we saw the Mayor of Alcaucin being taken into court in handcuffs, having been arrested on corruption charges along with other members of his family and local officials. €160,000 was found under his mattress (literally) when his house was searched, and it was reported that not one centimo of his Mayoral salary had been withdrawn from the bank in years. People were applauding in the street, and initially we thought they were pleased because he'd got his comeuppance, but not a bit of it, they were calling out supportive messages, and nobody at all was pelting him with rotten eggs. Of course his political opponents tried to make hay out of it, just as his Party supporters would have if it had been a member of the opposing party at fault.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 6:02 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by Lynn R
What is on the front page of newspapers is not necessarily what is at the forefront of the minds of the majority of the population - just like the preoccupations of the chattering classes in the UK don't matter as much to most people. The Spanish people I've spoken to about this all say exactly the same "Politicos (spit on pavement or make disgusted noises) - they're all the same, crooks". Then they go back to talking about the lack of jobs, the football, whatever.
Then vote them in again at the next election.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 6:24 am
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Default Re: Bárcenas Tells All

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Then vote them in again at the next election.
If I wanted to be uncharitable, I might almost think that there are those amongst them who actually have a sneaking regard for people who have managed to squirrel away so much away from the clutches of Hacienda! Surely not.
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