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AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Old Mar 27th 2010, 3:59 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by Veleta
Yes, I'm sure they do. However they can do the alta at the Hacienda (but not SS), continue working until such time as they have invoiced up to the minimum salary amount and then do the alta at the SS and start paying the 250 euros. It just makes the first few months of business much cheaper.
Thanks. It sounds a lot more sensible that way.
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Old Mar 27th 2010, 4:07 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by LittleWeed
If you live in Valencia and were affiliated to the Security System, your health cover should (I believe) continue indefinitely. In 2008 the Generalitat passed a law that extends health cover indefinitely for anyone in situation of "baja" from any one the Social Security regimes.
Slightly off topic but this does raise an interesting point.
As far as I can see, Spanish nationals are entitled to free health care and financial assistance regardless of contributions.
70% of the people in my village are unemployed, a lot for many years, yet they recieve the above benefits.
The problem I have had is that when you ask them how it all works they won't tell.....or is it they don't know?
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Old Mar 27th 2010, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

As a bit of extra info, here is how this whole thing came about (I don't have a link to support this info, I was told by staff at the Servicios Empresariales office).

Appartantly if you are employed you don't have to pay SS contributions if you earn less than the annual minimum salary, however (in compliance with the Normativa) autonomos were paying the SS contributions regardless of how little they were earning.

Not so long ago one autonomo decided that this was not fair and denuncia-ed the system. He won.

So this now means that if you check the Normativa, it still says that you have to pay SS contributions from the moment you set up in business. However, this Normativa is outdated by CASE LAW.

I guess the Normativa will be rewritten sooner or later but those things don't happen overnight. This little story explains the bit highlighted in red below.


El Tribunal Supremo, ante la ausencia de concreción normativa, entiende que una actividad económica se ejerce con habitualidad cuando el rendimiento anual supera el importe del salario mínimo interprofesional, que para el año 2005 está fijado en 7,182.00 euros".
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Old Mar 27th 2010, 4:19 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by Veleta

Re health cover....private health cover is way cheaper than 250 euros a month so it's a bit of a no brainer.
nope, the 250 covers the whole family. If you take private med insurance, as far as i can recall, you pay for each individual in the family, meaning for example if there is a wife and husband and 3 kids, you could be talking 400 plus a month, for cover that would actually pay out if it needed to.
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Old Mar 27th 2010, 4:35 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by painterhombre
nope, the 250 covers the whole family. If you take private med insurance, as far as i can recall, you pay for each individual in the family, meaning for example if there is a wife and husband and 3 kids, you could be talking 400 plus a month, for cover that would actually pay out if it needed to.
OK. I don't have kids so only pay 60 a month for private. But there seems to be doubt as to whether you would be excluded from health cover anyway, even if you weren't paying the 250 euros. I must admit I never asked about the health care side of things as it didn't affect me.
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Old Mar 27th 2010, 4:40 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Does seem a bit unfair since probably at the time the autonomo would have had to pay the 250 per month to keep his/ her health cover whereas the employee could have benefited under the "sin recursos" law (anyone with an income under about 6000 qualifies for healthcover).

Getting back to the original topic this is really useful info for part-time self employed workers who don´t really earn enough to cover the costs of running an autonomo but want keep straight with the tax man.
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Old Mar 27th 2010, 4:43 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by LittleWeed
Does seem a bit unfair since probably at the time the autonomo would have had to pay the 250 per month to keep his/ her health cover whereas the employee could have benefited under the "sin recursos" law (anyone with an income under about 6000 qualifies for healthcover).

Getting back to the original topic this is really useful info for part-time self employed workers who don´t really earn enough to cover the costs of running an autonomo but want keep straight with the tax man.
good call.

you cant submit accounts saying that you earn under 7k a year when your rent alone is 9k a year, for example.......

Last edited by painterhombre; Mar 27th 2010 at 5:26 pm. Reason: aliens
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Old Mar 28th 2010, 11:12 am
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Valeta, just a couple of questions which maybe you can answer.

Say you submit a "Modelo 037" with Hacienda to tell them you are working do you still need to tell the Social Security Office you will be working (but not paying)?
Does the 7k relate to net earnings or invoiced amounts?
If your spouse is working would you need to do separate IRPF declarations?
What would happen if you got to the end of the year and found you had crossed the 7k threshold?
Originally Posted by painterhombre
you cant submit accounts saying that you earn under 7k a year when your rent alone is 9k a year
Of course you can. Lots of people who aren't making crooked declarations earn less than their overheads for the first several years of being self employed (helped by spouses, savings, family members and banks). Obviously though those that are living hand-to-mouth and making false declarations might have some explaining to do if they were ever to be scrutinised.
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Old Mar 28th 2010, 11:37 am
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by Tele Addict
Valeta, just a couple of questions which maybe you can answer.

Say you submit a "Modelo 037" with Hacienda to tell them you are working do you still need to tell the Social Security Office you will be working (but not paying)?
Does the 7k relate to net earnings or invoiced amounts?
If your spouse is working would you need to do separate IRPF declarations?
What would happen if you got to the end of the year and found you had crossed the 7k threshold?
Of course you can. Lots of people who aren't making crooked declarations earn less than their overheads for the first several years of being self employed (helped by spouses, savings, family members and banks). Obviously though those that are living hand-to-mouth and making false declarations might have some explaining to do if they were ever to be scrutinised.
1. I was told that you should advise the SS office that you are doing the alta at the Hacienda. I'm not sure if they just say OK, cheers then, or if they give you something a bit more formal like an exemption certificate. Either way, because the normativa has not yet been modified I was told it is better to just keep everything out in the open so you can't be accused of trying to dodge your commitments.

2. I was told the 7K relates to invoiced amounts.

3. Don't know about spouses. I do separate declarations from my OH anyway. I guess you would have to do it that way.

4. I think you are supposed to know when you cross the 7K threshold, rather than getting to the end of the year and finding out 'by surprise'. When you get to 7K you should do a baja at the Hacienda and then immediately do an alta again but with both Hacienda and SS this time.
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Old Mar 28th 2010, 12:54 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

One other thing, are you sure this doesn't just relate to self-employed who do all their work for and invoice only one source (as an employee does)?
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Old Mar 28th 2010, 2:11 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by Tele Addict
One other thing, are you sure this doesn't just relate to self-employed who do all their work for and invoice only one source (as an employee does)?
Yes, I'm sure. Check the original text as it makes no mention of only having one "client".

In fact having just one "client" isn't legal as you should be employed in that case.
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Old Mar 28th 2010, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by Veleta
Yes, I'm sure. Check the original text as it makes no mention of only having one "client".

In fact having just one "client" isn't legal as you should be employed in that case.
Hi again,

This quote comes from an official document, right? Do you know exactly what document that is so it can be quoted in the SS office?

Thanks for this really useful info.
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Old Mar 28th 2010, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by Tele Addict
Hi again,

This quote comes from an official document, right? Do you know exactly what document that is so it can be quoted in the SS office?

Thanks for this really useful info.
I copied my extract from the www.jerezserviciosempresariales.es website.

You can find references to it all over google.

If you want to go right to the source you could try to find the wording from the Court ruling. Unfortunately I didn't ask for the date of the court hearing or the name of the autonomo who did the denuncia, so it might be a bit tricky to find it.
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Old Mar 29th 2010, 6:02 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

What's to stop anyone of below pension age from claiming they are autonomo just to get free Spanish health care?
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Old Mar 29th 2010, 6:39 pm
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Default Re: AUTONOMOS - how to avoid paying the 250 euros per month.

Originally Posted by billgates
What's to stop anyone of below pension age from claiming they are autonomo just to get free Spanish health care?
A check on the SS payments.
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