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Assisted dying.

Assisted dying.

Old Jun 15th 2011, 5:23 am
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Just to show how it is (sometimes) here in Spain.

A friend of ours was living with us when he was diagnosed with lung cancer. To cut a long story short, our doctor (who visited most days) kept 'upping' the morphine but did mention that there would come a point when it ceased to be effective.

He then made an astonishing announcement - well it was to me as I didn't know that there were such 'sensible' doctors about.

He mentioned that when the time came and my friend could not take the pain any more, he could be asked to administer 'the final dose'. Basically, he said that my friend would simply slip away and not wake up!

Despite my friend trying to stay with us so that he could see his grand-daughter (born a week earlier but in England), he finally could take no more and asked to go.

It was beautifully done with such sympathy - what a great doctor.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 5:32 am
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by snikpoh
Just to show how it is (sometimes) here in Spain.

A friend of ours was living with us when he was diagnosed with lung cancer. To cut a long story short, our doctor (who visited most days) kept 'upping' the morphine but did mention that there would come a point when it ceased to be effective.

He then made an astonishing announcement - well it was to me as I didn't know that there were such 'sensible' doctors about.

He mentioned that when the time came and my friend could not take the pain any more, he could be asked to administer 'the final dose'. Basically, he said that my friend would simply slip away and not wake up!

Despite my friend trying to stay with us so that he could see his grand-daughter (born a week earlier but in England), he finally could take no more and asked to go.

It was beautifully done with such sympathy - what a great doctor.
I think that more doctors would help in this way but are afraid of being struck off. In fact it is surprising really that he felt that he could talk so freely with you all considering that you are not Spanish and could be likely to report him.

He saved your friend from a longer drawn out painful death so this must have been better for his partner too.

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Old Jun 15th 2011, 5:39 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by rachelk
What I hate is the argument that it's God's will that someone should suffer. Fine, if that's what 'they' want to believe, let them, so long as 'they' don't impose it on others.

What I don't get is why 'they' don't therefore reject all forms of medical intervention, be it surgery, blood tranfusion or just taking paracetemol. If God wants you to suffer, then suffer! Why the inconsistency?
That's because you are using logic.

Religious people have a terrible problem. Having staked their claim to a position in the religious heirarchy, they are faced with inconsistancies. They can't admit their religion may have got it wrong, so they develop more and more complex and ridiculous arguments to justify what is an untenable position.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 5:43 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by snikpoh
Just to show how it is (sometimes) here in Spain.

A friend of ours was living with us when he was diagnosed with lung cancer. To cut a long story short, our doctor (who visited most days) kept 'upping' the morphine but did mention that there would come a point when it ceased to be effective.
He then made an astonishing announcement - well it was to me as I didn't know that there were such 'sensible' doctors about.

He mentioned that when the time came and my friend could not take the pain any more, he could be asked to administer 'the final dose'. Basically, he said that my friend would simply slip away and not wake up!

Despite my friend trying to stay with us so that he could see his grand-daughter (born a week earlier but in England), he finally could take no more and asked to go.

It was beautifully done with such sympathy - what a great doctor.
That is exactly the way it happened in England for my father-in-law, he had a wonderful and sympathetic doctor indeed!
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 5:47 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by megmet
That is exactly the way it happened in England for my father-in-law, he had a wonderful and sympathetic doctor indeed!
How nice to have a decent and sympathetic doctor.

Of course, there is a very easy way to do it yourself, just set up an 'oxygen tent' with an air pump that circulates the air thru a sodium hydroxide wash, followed by a water wash. Basically the oxygen levels fall in the tent, but the CO2 is removed, so you don't feel as tho you are suffocating.

I knew of someone who did this as an experiment to test mental functions in the absence of oxygen. Bloody stupid and dangerous, because he passed out and would have died had someone else not walked into the lab at that moment.

He said it was like being hit by a warm, fluffy pink marshmallow travelling at 100 mph.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 8:37 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Whenever society is faced with state stupidity, some parts of it try and circumvent the obvious failure of the state. I don't know where that sentence came from, all I should have said that we have a local Spanish, private doctor who is known as Doctor Death.

Whenever a dying patient is released from hospital to die in peace at home, he can be called to administer suitable doses of diamorphine to relieve the pain. He is not cheap, but I believe he is most effective in putting an end to the suffering.

I must admit I don't like the doctor, who runs a normal practice as well. I've visited him on occasions for simple things like an ear infection from excess chorine in the swimming pool, and found him to be an extremely cold fish.

Perhaps I don't like him because he charges 50 Euros per consultation, a visit to inject a dying patient at home costs a lot more.

What do I know?
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

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Old Jun 15th 2011, 9:50 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Harold Shipman
Problem was he didn't wait till they wanted to go!
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 10:21 pm
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by bil
Problem was he didn't wait till they wanted to go!
Maybe he did.

But he didn't discuss it with friends and family so they could post on forums comments that could lead back.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 11:34 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Maybe he did.

But he didn't discuss it with friends and family so they could post on forums comments that could lead back.
Forum discussions can be dangerous, unless the topics do not extend to anything beyond the best grass seed on the market or the times of the last bus from Malaga. Important subjects are approached fearfully, your views can get you into trouble with members who disagree strongly; but I believe people like Pratchett are right to tackle difficult topics head on.

My problem with assisted dying is that no one has ever come back to verify the least painful method employed. Is it a carefully prepared beaker of deadly barbiturate, an injection of strong morphine, or a blast from a 12 bore?

Perhaps we can learn from how we deal with our dogs when their suffering becomes too much. I called a qualified vet to our home where my dying dog was injected while I was there to comfort him. He died within seconds and I was greatly relieved that his suffering was over. That I cried for the next month is irrelevant.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 11:50 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by HBG
Perhaps we can learn from how we deal with our dogs when their suffering becomes too much. I called a qualified vet to our home where my dying dog was injected while I was there to comfort him. He died within seconds and I was greatly relieved that his suffering was over. That I cried for the next month is irrelevant.
You know that you did your best for your poor old dog and it is great that a vet can do this for an animal and many of us want that option for humans. However, as I said before it does not matter how for it I am I do not think that I could actually help someone.

People who assist have to be very strong. I am not talking about the person who administers an overdose of morphine or whatever but the person who helps the dying person to fullfil their wishes by doing the organising. For me I think that I would always feel guilty for making the arrangements and this would then add to the grieving process.

So although I am for assisted dying I am against being the helper.

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Old Jun 15th 2011, 11:52 pm
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by megmet
Voluntary euthanasia or assisted dying...call it what you will, should be enshrined in our basic human rights!
As a non-religious person myself I don't think the do gooders of this world have any say in whether a person should be allowed to die.
What makes these people think that their views should override those of someone in unbearable pain who just wanting release?

I have watched several members of my family die slowly in great pain, not one of these people given the choice wouldn't have opted for a more dignified way out.
When my father-in-law was dying he had a wonderful doctor who eased his end, something that our entire family were very grateful for, of course as things stand he was putting himself at risk of prosecution....but it shouldn't be that way!

I can only hope that the law soon reflects the wishes of people like myself and my husband! We have made a pact that should one of us end up in that position the other would assist in a dignified exit, no bible basher will ever change our minds on that!
That is truly disturbing. One cannot know whether to allow it or not to allow it because of religious reasons usually. I admit that I am even scared to think about death.
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Old Jun 16th 2011, 12:30 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by gretty
That is truly disturbing. One cannot know whether to allow it or not to allow it because of religious reasons usually. I admit that I am even scared to think about death.
Why? Look at it logically. It is logical to fear dying unpleasantly or painfully, but illogical to fear death.

There are only two alternatives. Either there is life after death, or there isn't.

If there isn't, then there is nothing to worry about because you will have ceased to exist and be beyond pain, pleasure or anything else.

If there is a life after death, then why worry? It's illogical that any god would be less empathetic than us, and no person with the slightest empathy could contemplate a hell.

If there were a god and he had no empathy it would be worse than living under the Nazis.

So, why worry?
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Old Jun 16th 2011, 12:32 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by HBG
My problem with assisted dying is that no one has ever come back to verify the least painful method employed. Is it a carefully prepared beaker of deadly barbiturate, an injection of strong morphine, or a blast from a 12 bore?.
That's why I said that a nitrogen flush aka breathing deoxygenated air is about as painless as it gets, as I knew someone who had done it.
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Old Jun 16th 2011, 1:14 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Assisted dying.

Originally Posted by gretty
That is truly disturbing. One cannot know whether to allow it or not to allow it because of religious reasons usually. I admit that I am even scared to think about death.
You are not alone, many, many people say that they are afraid to think or talk about death. Many say that they are afraid of death but in actual fact they should rephrase this and say that they are afraid of the process of dying rather than death itself. If we were all told that when our time was up we would not have any pain but would simply close our eyes and stop breathing we would all be much more accepting of this factor.

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