willibobski

Hi Everybody,

Wondered if someone could clarify the laws on something for me.

We own a property in Tenerife that is on a complex to which we pay community fees and is controlled by an administrator and committee.

The community is divided and split evenly between owners who live there permanently [Residents] and owners who let for most of the year and use for themselves as a holiday home [Renters]

We fall in the rental category and initially only purchased the place as investment and also for somewhere we could holiday each year with our family.

For the last few years there have been disturbances in the summer months [July/August] with a lot of the kids getting over excited and basically having fun, but perhaps going a little too far at times, only to find that they are constantly reminded of the rules of the community by some of the residents, well basically two or three older couples who find they are disturbed by the noise and disruption, even though for 10 months of the year it is very quiet.

Naturally, families stick together and basically defending their kids behaviour by saying they are only having fun enjoying themselves etc.. unfortunately, the guest in my apartment has maybe pushed things a little too far and has got a little too, let’s say heated, in trying to make his point.

Whilst we always make people aware of the community rules, they are responsible for their own actions to a certain degree as we cannot be on holiday with them to follow their every move.

Because of these disturbances there have been 5 or 6 apartment owners [including ourselves] who have now been threatened that their apartment will now be denounced to the Police, which seems a little over the top to us to say the least.

My question is, how much can the community, Administrator or the Police for that matter actually enforce on us or our property, we have been very upset and concerned by this as we have been told by certain people [mainly residents] that our apartment could be seized for 3 years and may not be rented out or even use by ourselves for that matter, during this period.

All the guests in our apartment are qualified and spoken to by ourselves first, we are very particular about the people we allow to use our second home and indeed the family involved have stayed ours before and always looked after it, however, we have been told that they stayed last year and there was trouble with him then opposing the rules etc..

We have now been told he or his family are not welcome back, which we fully respect and appreciate, the last thing we want is conflict and upset, only to be alienated by the rest of the community.

However, we don’t want to have the threat of denunciation thrown in our face, every time someone has a disagreement with someone on the complex.

Apologies for the long thread but felt it important to explain the situation thoroughly, so people can understand our situation.

Do we need to speak to a Spanish Lawyer regarding this??

Many Thanks
Jonathan

Dick Dasterdly

It's a regular old chestnut with the 50/50 community split.
I presume there's a majority in favour of renting and you have a touristica licence and pay your letting taxes, otherwise you could be in trouble.
Not sure just how far they would go or be prepared to go as denuncias are often dished out like confetti in all directions and usually come to nothing.
However I would take the warnings seriously, as the administrators/committee are empowered to enforce the community rules.
Noisy kids around the pool and complex can be a nightmare for some,especially older permanent residents. We used to close our pool on afternoons and insist on minimum noise and no apt.repair work etc during siesta hours.
I think they will probably stay on your back unless you play ball.
A possible option is to let to couples or older ppl. only, though it may lose you a little business.

jdr

You are liable for anyone that rents your apartment.
Rules are made for the good of all the apartments, you must remember lots of these people bought as their home and did not expect to be living in Butlins.
We all know kids like to have fun, but they must respect the rules, Siesta time etc.
Do not upset the president. HERE No 6.

willibobski

Many thanks for your prompt replies,

Fortunately, most of the people who rent our apartment are couples only, or close family & friends with kids, we have never had problems in the past and this is the first confrontation we have experienced.

However, regarding taxes, the complex has all the facilities for a holiday let complex, reception area, pool attendant etc.. we do not personally have a tourist licence and neither does anyone else on the complex as far as I am aware?

We submit ALL tax affairs to HMRC in the UK as a business, however the rental income does not even cover the cost of our mortgage [Interest not Capital], community fees, repairs & maintainance on the property, in fact we have to subsidize each year to the tune of £3000 per year.

Our accountant advised us that due to recent changes under EU law, the same rule now applies for UK holiday lettings in the same way as the rest of Europe, i.e. Tax is paid pproportionately according to EU/UK tax laws. i.e. if the liability was £500 to UK and £750 to Spain, we would in fact pay UK £500 and only £250 to the Spanish Tax authorities.

Without wanting to open a hornets nest here, especially after all whats happened, is there anyway we can be assured that we do not require a Tourist License, i.e. if the complex doesnt require one or holds an exemption etc..?

Your replies are appreciated.

Many Thanks
J

Fred James

If you receive rental income from a Spanish property you must pay tax on it in Spain - there are very few deductions allowed against the income unless you are resident.

If you are UK tax resident you will pay tax on your worldwide income which will include the Spanish rental income but you may be able to deduct the Spanish tax from the UK tax.

snikpoh

JDR, could you clarify that statement please - does it only apply to communities?

If, as I do, one rents out properties then I thought the onus was on the renter and not the owner should things go wrong (at least, that's what our local police said recently when a party got out of hand).

Basically the renters held a party that got out of hand and a neighbour called me and the police. Having spoken to the police, I was reassured that it was not my responsibility as I didn't live there - and so was asked to leave. The two tenants were then each fined 1500 euros!

Dick Dasterdly

Sorry I didn't mean you personally need a tourist licence,but the complex as a whole.
Normally I think it needs more than 50% of owners to vote in favour to be classed as touristica.
Along with that go a whole host of regulations to be followed by the communidad authorities some of which also apply to individual owners who are letting.
You should check with someone from the committee or the president, but from what you say regarding pool attendants and paying your taxes it seems to be the case.
I presume you let through an agent/management company and last I heard only one was allowed to officially operate on each communidad, which left the way open for owners to be unfairly exploited with a take it or leave it attitude.
It's a while since I was involved with communidads, so others may well be more up to the mark than me on these matters.
I wonder if you pay your taxes directly or via a letting agent?
I presume you have a nightwatchman on patrol who also takes care of out of hours disturbances or occasionally calls in the local plod to issue a final warning if things get a little too noisy and his own warnings are ignored.
Best to keep right side of the authorities etc and be sure to have a clear list of communidad regulations displayed in your apt. for guests, so there are no misunderstandings, as they could easily be turfed out in the middle of the night if they get out of hand.
Wonder which resort you are in,as I spent ten happy years down there myself,mainly in the Los Cris. area?
Best of luck anyway ,hope you get sorted ok.

jdr

I mean on an Urb, they have statutes that have to be adhered to by all the owners, so if your renters break the rules the onus lies on the owner to sort out the problems within the community.

mikelincs

Don't forget, the President and administrators have huge powers, and also a final sanction of forced selling of the property for major infractions. The house we bought was one where the original owners had been thrown out and forced to sell. The only real answer is to stop anyone who causes problems from renting your property again. As to taxation, you should get this sorted as, due to the economic downturn in Spain, town halls are looking for other ways to get money, and one of these lies in the fact that, unless you declare otherwise, your empty apartment is assumed to be rented out when you are not there, and you could be liable for a lot of tax on this assumed income, see a lawyer or gestor and sort out the required declaration, either of income or that it is, in fact, empty when you are not there.