bfg69bug

I bet Malaga National Police station changes the rules and demands that people going from permanent residencia to TIE meet the requirements as well...they did that before with temp to perm residencia.

alot of people that i have spoken to are avoiding the TIE change because they dont meet requirements, and while they have been living here for years "on the black" .. they prefer not to bring attention to themselves by walking into a police station to declare "i dont earn enough legally to support my family"....

Its going to be a good way to weed out some of the "black economy" in spain. I hope it has a "knock on" effect and prices go up because of the taxes etc, it will help in the long term.

Chipmonk

After 5 years you automatically get permanent residency so they cant make you reapply.

bobd22

Just re that point the checking of meeting requirements under the TIE are not conducted by the Police National it is conducted (certainly in Malaga Region) by the Extranjero Office which is immigration rather than in the past the Extranjero dept of Police National. Once immigration office is happy with the evidence of meeting requirements they issue the authorisation to make an appointment for police National. If its simply an exchange of green card to TIC then no need to go near the immigration office.
As for people on the black as you say when they get caught out then no point complaining. I would think after Jan next year far more chance of them being found out and if they are they will not be able to claim protection under the Withdrawal Agreement.

bobd22

I think main point is the post is referring to people who have lived here for years on the black (those that in the UK would be called illegal immigrants). So although as you correctly point out the 5 years of legal residency does automatically entitle you to permenant residency rights, NOT for those that have failed to register there residency at all for whatever reason.

bfg69bug

I know thats what the "law" said, but in Malaga they were making people "start from 0" even if they had some paperwork to start with (people that were temporary residents etc - they couldnt be argued with.. power goes to peoples heads.)

Hopefully as Bob says, that has changed with the responsibility being moved to the extranjera office and not being conducted by the polica nacional / extranjera (i´m sure its the same people, but we´ll see)... from my experience of helping people apply for residencia in the National Police Station.. it really did depend which of the agents you spoke to, there was no "uniform" answer to things, as it were.

bfg69bug

exactly my point Bobd22 - people that have never registered etc, that do odd jobs or depend on handouts or get paid in cash.. scrabbling around for a pittance and counting the pennies as they walk around lidl in their stinky campo clothes and dirty crocs, buying beer and fags and not having the money left for deoderant, before jumping in their rusty, broken down foreign plated vehicles that shouldnt be on the road.

I hope they all get caught and kicked out.

Chipmonk

I meant you have to have legally registered for 5 years then you automatically get a permanent stay. Anyone who has lived just 5 years without registering cant automatically get permanent residency as they dont officially exist!!

bobd22

Yes they either act quickly and legalise their position or accept consequences of being an illegal immigrant which is exactly what they are.

EU.flag

That is completely not true, however I dont condone people who decided to ignore rules. Especially with intent to avoid tax.
They are not illegal immigrants by any mean, they are in country legal. Just they haven't registered residence, for which failure at most they can be fined. They would not be detained/arrested or deported, which is what would happen with illegals. That will all change from 1st July 2021.
If from that point they haven't registered status and still in country, they are illegals.

To claim previous years of residence, they need to provide documentation,i.e. bills, bank statements, tax returns, etc.

bobd22

That is simply playing with words. EU law says if living in an EU country for over 90 days one may be required to should register, Spain is a country that says you should and if living in Spain over 183 days one should comply with fiscal residency rules and submit a tax declaration. So it's only illegal not to comply with rules of the land (whichever one is in) if its the UK? That is the point I am making just the same as people who enter the UK and overstay their visa or migrants who are picked up in the English Channel as a matter of safety by border force or whoever and then taken to UK. I was in fact using sarcasm. Most such people in fact do as someone else said fail to register for residency to avoid paying tax to Spain.

bfg69bug

The amount of people that i speak to or bump into in work (malaga airport) or town (alhaurin el grande) or when shopping, especially in coin) that ask me about residencia and tie etc etc, and then dont like the answer, is actually still amazing .. After all the years ive been here. Its like they want to know, but choose to ignore it.

bobd22

I think that is because as EUFlag says nothing is really done with them. EU says they can be fined but that's it and not sure if that has ever happened in Spain. Also they seem to get away without paying due taxes I seem to remember a so called crack down a few years ago which amounted to them being given an amnesty for unpaid years and told to pay in future. It does make a mockery of those that comply and do as they should. Not sure if that will change after January it should but will it?