All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Jun 1st 2018, 6:30 pm
#31
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Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
They also apparently thought that Brexit would be dead simple, and that the UK would be able to dictate the terms of leaving to the EU, and that it would able to quit without handing over any kind of payment, and that EU immigration would be stopped in its tracks on B-day and that the UK doesn't need EU immigrants, and that Japan and the US and India and the rest of the world would be rushing to sign trade deals on the UK's terms, and lots more things that they were told but that have since turned out not quite as they thought..
Jun 1st 2018, 8:14 pm
#32
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,193
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Yes, that's what they thought, based on the information they had been given.
They also apparently thought that Brexit would be dead simple, and that the UK would be able to dictate the terms of leaving to the EU, and that it would able to quit without handing over any kind of payment, and that EU immigration would be stopped in its tracks on B-day and that the UK doesn't need EU immigrants, and that Japan and the US and India and the rest of the world would be rushing to sign trade deals on the UK's terms, and lots more things that they were told but that have since turned out not quite as they thought..
They also apparently thought that Brexit would be dead simple, and that the UK would be able to dictate the terms of leaving to the EU, and that it would able to quit without handing over any kind of payment, and that EU immigration would be stopped in its tracks on B-day and that the UK doesn't need EU immigrants, and that Japan and the US and India and the rest of the world would be rushing to sign trade deals on the UK's terms, and lots more things that they were told but that have since turned out not quite as they thought..
Jun 1st 2018, 8:37 pm
#33
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Yes I had a conversation a while back with a middle class lady who fully supported Brexit on that very basis. I mentioned that many of the problems could have been resolved had Cameron simply of used the same protocol as Spain which is fully allowed within EU rules i.e. after 90 days prove income to support yourself prove medical cover etc. Her response well that's as maybe but at the end of the day we had to leave as their are far too many Indian , Pakistani and other Asians taking over our country! I asked her what that had to do with us being in the EU? But of course all Brexit voters fully understood it all? As for project fear yes it was over done but as they say it ain't over till the fat lady sings and she isn't singing yet because nobody even those negotiating know the final outcome, we must simply wait and see.
Jun 1st 2018, 9:28 pm
#34
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,193
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Yes I had a conversation a while back with a middle class lady who fully supported Brexit on that very basis. I mentioned that many of the problems could have been resolved had Cameron simply of used the same protocol as Spain which is fully allowed within EU rules i.e. after 90 days prove income to support yourself prove medical cover etc. Her response well that's as maybe but at the end of the day we had to leave as their are far too many Indian , Pakistani and other Asians taking over our country! I asked her what that had to do with us being in the EU? But of course all Brexit voters fully understood it all? As for project fear yes it was over done but as they say it ain't over till the fat lady sings and she isn't singing yet because nobody even those negotiating know the final outcome, we must simply wait and see.
Jun 1st 2018, 9:55 pm
#35
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Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Nothing legal could've been done to reduce numbers from the EU under Cameron, hence his trip around the capitals of Europe with a begging bowl. The EU tried to call our bluff during his 'negotiations' so we called theirs by voting Leave. Blair could've put in the same transitional controls, just as the 'good' Europeans like the Germans and France in 2004 did, but chose not to. That Blair also vastly increased non-EU immigration during his tenure, in part to 'to rub the Right's nose in diversity', a policy that hasn't been reversed by any succeeding government meant that the Brexit vote was the first time any voter had an opportunity to pass comment on 20 years of mass immigration.
Jun 2nd 2018, 12:08 am
#36
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
It's not so much being frightened of a confirmatory vote. I'm sure the vote in favour of Brexit will be greater than the initial Referendum result.
It's more how can anyone ever trust the result of a referendum again if it can just be re-run because a minority of the voters didn't like the result of the first vote?
And if a second vote went the other way (unlikely I know) then why shouldn't there be a third vote to satisfy the losers of the second vote?
Where do you draw the line?
The referendum was a one-off, one in a generation vote and it was perfectly clear that it would mean leaving the EU, CU, SM and the rest. David Cameron said as much in his shameful countrywide leaflet when he was trying to persuade the country to vote in favour of staying.
And the argument that we didn't know what we were voting for is just plain insulting.
Then mess, confusion and chaotic negotiations are entirely due to our incompetent PM.
It's more how can anyone ever trust the result of a referendum again if it can just be re-run because a minority of the voters didn't like the result of the first vote?
And if a second vote went the other way (unlikely I know) then why shouldn't there be a third vote to satisfy the losers of the second vote?
Where do you draw the line?
The referendum was a one-off, one in a generation vote and it was perfectly clear that it would mean leaving the EU, CU, SM and the rest. David Cameron said as much in his shameful countrywide leaflet when he was trying to persuade the country to vote in favour of staying.
And the argument that we didn't know what we were voting for is just plain insulting.
Then mess, confusion and chaotic negotiations are entirely due to our incompetent PM.
Then, look at Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland, she hasn't stopped agitating for another referendum, she has just published her latest proposal. Referenda are not "once-in-a-lifetime" events.
Actually, IMHO, referenda have no place in a mature representative parliamentary democracy - they just cause division and acrimony. Remember the 48%!
Jun 2nd 2018, 12:09 am
#37
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Many remainers don't understand what they were voting on either, and don't understand what things like free movement are and aren't. How many uni students voted in because they thought they would need a visa to go on their backpacking trip during the summer holidays?
Jun 2nd 2018, 12:18 am
#38
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Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
And who's to say that they won't? Current proposal is that the UK citizens would need a "Schengen Visa" to travel to the EU.
Jun 2nd 2018, 12:20 am
#39
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Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
And who is to say it will? Wake me when it happens.
Jun 2nd 2018, 7:43 am
#41
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Posts: 99
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Nothing legal could've been done to reduce numbers from the EU under Cameron, hence his trip around the capitals of Europe with a begging bowl. The EU tried to call our bluff during his 'negotiations' so we called theirs by voting Leave. Blair could've put in the same transitional controls, just as the 'good' Europeans like the Germans and France in 2004 did, but chose not to. That Blair also vastly increased non-EU immigration during his tenure, in part to 'to rub the Right's nose in diversity', a policy that hasn't been reversed by any succeeding government meant that the Brexit vote was the first time any voter had an opportunity to pass comment on 20 years of mass immigration.
Jun 2nd 2018, 11:20 am
#42
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 72
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
The government has refused to have face-to-face meetings with any of the ex-pat campaign groups in Spain who are concerned about what is going to happen to British citizens there after BREXIT. Anyone who relies on the Spanish state to provide benefits, healthcare etc. should be worried.
I've now got an Irish passport. That's how much faith I have in the present government to protect my rights when I move to Spain.
Jun 2nd 2018, 11:29 am
#43
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Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
Most leave voters knew what they were getting, and most remain voters knew what they were getting (and there certainly are remain voters who don't understand Free Movement . . . they show up in this forum from time to time . . . you understanding what free movement is does not mean everyone else who voted remain does, if that's what you are getting at).
The Guardian's own statistics - I know because I linked to them in a thread a while back - showed that only 2-3% of all UK Citizens exercise their Free Movement rights. It was about the same for the other major Western European countries. If I remember Poland was at the higher end with 4% exercising Free Movement.
Another way to look at that, is to say 95% + of British Citizens are not using their Free Movement rights. Basing the Remain campaign around that was a mistake, as was the hyperbole about an economic supernova, when every political party in every political campaign always says that's what is going to happen if the other side wins. It's tiresome.
What else do you have about why the UK should stay in the EU? Play those cards - not ones the vast majority of British Citizens don't care about and don't ever plan on using.
I'm actually not sure what the point of this thread is, other than that the OP is still butt-hurt that Remain lost the referendum. Is this thread covering any new ground?
Jun 2nd 2018, 1:23 pm
#44
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,622
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
That's a bit like the people that voted out because there are too many immigrants coming from Asia and Africa then. Reality is there are people on both sides of the argument who haven't a clue about the details of what it all means. However they have the right to vote whichever way they wish. Not surprising that most people using this site are more interested in how the final outcome will affect them their pocket and health care given most are immigrants themselves in a foreign country. Although I know some don't see that more they are expats? The vote is over until whenever there's another. All I hope for is a decent result for all of us from this mess
Jun 2nd 2018, 2:02 pm
#45
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 72
Re: All the rights British people could lose after Brexit
OK, good! So do you understand now, how insulting it is to say that leave voters only voted that way because they are stupid and ignorant?
Most leave voters knew what they were getting, and most remain voters knew what they were getting (and there certainly are remain voters who don't understand Free Movement . . . they show up in this forum from time to time . . . you understanding what free movement is does not mean everyone else who voted remain does, if that's what you are getting at).
The Guardian's own statistics - I know because I linked to them in a thread a while back - showed that only 2-3% of all UK Citizens exercise their Free Movement rights. It was about the same for the other major Western European countries. If I remember Poland was at the higher end with 4% exercising Free Movement.
Another way to look at that, is to say 95% + of British Citizens are not using their Free Movement rights. Basing the Remain campaign around that was a mistake, as was the hyperbole about an economic supernova, when every political party in every political campaign always says that's what is going to happen if the other side wins. It's tiresome.
What else do you have about why the UK should stay in the EU? Play those cards - not ones the vast majority of British Citizens don't care about and don't ever plan on using.
I'm actually not sure what the point of this thread is, other than that the OP is still butt-hurt that Remain lost the referendum. Is this thread covering any new ground?
Most leave voters knew what they were getting, and most remain voters knew what they were getting (and there certainly are remain voters who don't understand Free Movement . . . they show up in this forum from time to time . . . you understanding what free movement is does not mean everyone else who voted remain does, if that's what you are getting at).
The Guardian's own statistics - I know because I linked to them in a thread a while back - showed that only 2-3% of all UK Citizens exercise their Free Movement rights. It was about the same for the other major Western European countries. If I remember Poland was at the higher end with 4% exercising Free Movement.
Another way to look at that, is to say 95% + of British Citizens are not using their Free Movement rights. Basing the Remain campaign around that was a mistake, as was the hyperbole about an economic supernova, when every political party in every political campaign always says that's what is going to happen if the other side wins. It's tiresome.
What else do you have about why the UK should stay in the EU? Play those cards - not ones the vast majority of British Citizens don't care about and don't ever plan on using.
I'm actually not sure what the point of this thread is, other than that the OP is still butt-hurt that Remain lost the referendum. Is this thread covering any new ground?
You seem to be saying that because 95% of Brits do not exercise freedom of movement, that it's ok that this right is denied to the other 5% who do want to exercise it. Fair enough. You and other people do not care about it but I do. Judging by your reply to my post, you seem to have made assumptions about me and what I believe when you don't even know me.
This thread is supposed to be about discussing rights British people could lose after BREXIT, that is the 'point' of this thread. I get the impression you're tired of hearing about it. In which case, why are you posting about it?