Advice needed for move
 

Good afternoon,

we are a young family (in 30s with 3 young children) and looking at moving to Costa del sol region and looking for advice on various things.

where is best to move to where is popular with British expats and isn’t too expensive? My wife has friends that moved 10+ years ago and live near miraflores area so would be nice to live around that area, Mijas, Fuengirola, miraflores etc?

how have people got on with flats/apartments with kids? We’d love a house/villa with private pool as we are obviously used to a big 3 bedroom house in the U.K. but don’t think we could afford something like that? Unless mortgages can be obtained at decent rates? Have others who had kids have no problem in apartments and shared pools etc?

jobs - what kind of jobs are obtainable in these areas for a British expat? Potential salaries etc? Ideally I’d like to be able to live off just my wage to start with so my wife can look after our 1 year old then in a couple of years she can get a part time job or full time once the little one is in school.

Ive read kids pick up Spanish rapidly in Spanish state schools? How have others kids got on in different schools and what would your recommendations be?

making friends and social circles? Are areas easier to make British/Spanish friends of our age? Obviously my wife has her friend and their family living there but we wouldn’t want to have to burden them with us 7 days a week forever.

any others tips or help anyone can think of I’d hugely appreciate it as we start our research? This is something we would love to do and ideally if we can get everything planned to the point of making the leap of faith it would ideally need to be sometime in next year as would like to do it before my 10 year old starts high school.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Do a search of the forum and you will find quite a few threads on the subject. Here is one for you to read,

Moving to Spain - Where to Start? - British Expats

Rosemary

Re: Advice needed for move
 

A good link Rosemary, I've just read through it and there is as much information there as the OP may require unless they have specific questions.

Steve

Re: Advice needed for move
 

I’m sorry but the thread link doesn’t really answer any of my questions. Majority of it is arguing about starmer’s potential decisions, specific visa type and the fact the OP wasn’t clearer with their questions which id like to think I’ve asked many more specific questions to which aren’t answered in most threads I’ve looked at on the first 5/6 pages including the thread linked.

many thanks

Re: Advice needed for move
 

You are putting the cart before the horse, really, as until you know you would be able to get a visa (you don't say if you have an EU passport, if you do then it is a different story). If a UK passport holder, then it isn't just a case of what jobs are available and what selary levels might be expected - you would need to secure a job offer from an employer, and the employer first has to secure a work permit to be able to employ you (which comes at quite a cost) and only then could you apply for a visa to enable you to live and work in Spain. Unless you have a skill set which is high enough demand to justify the cost and timescale involved to an employer, or they have found it difficult to recruit a suitable candidate who doesn't need a visa, they're unlikely to want to go down that route.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Ok, let's put it bluntly then.

If you need to work, and it clearly sounds like you do, then you will need to first find a Spanish employer to offer you a contract and then sponsor your work visas. Unless you have some unique or high demand skills which cannot be sourced either in Spain, or the rest of the EU, no employer is going to offer you a job.

If you do not possess such skills then your plan is dead in the water.

Now if you or your wife were to possess an EU passport that would be something else entirely!

Sorry but that's it in a nutshell.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

I’m sorry to both the last two replies but how do you know what my situation is in regards to skills I posses etc.

I had 4 other questions that have nothing to do with work or visas.

it seems to me looking at majority of the threads on this website is most people just look to shoot down anyone who has the audacity of showing interest in moving to Spain.

I have asked questions on an expat Spain forum/thread looking for answers from hopefully nice helpful people which usually you find on forums but instead just people telling me to forget it without knowing my personal circumstances. Most people usually don’t post if they don’t have anything constructive to say to a specific question.

Thanks for all your non help. Happy for you all to leave it there 👍🏻

if anyone has any actual answers to my other specific questions then please feel free to answer.

many thanks

Re: Advice needed for move
 

It would be very helpful if you could provide as much info about yourself as possible, ie what type of job/qualifications do you have, salary range are you looking for. If you do not provide the relevant info to your questions, how can our members help you?

Re: Advice needed for move
 

hi jerseygirl,

how does knowing my skills have anything to do with questions about areas with British expats but not expensive, about people’s experience with kids living in apartments not homes/villas, question about kids getting on in Spanish state schools, question about social aspect for new British movers?

I feel I gave enough info for those questions to be answered. Instead they weren’t even acknowledged, not even asking for more info. Just a straight don’t bother you probably won’t get a job?

Re: Advice needed for move
 

If it was up to me, you and your family would still be able to move to Spain and start a new life and you may or may not make a go of it like thousands of others before you. I'm definitely not a ladder kicker.

Nobody on here is being a killjoy and what you are proposing would have been perfectly reasonable before Brexit but now it is extremely difficult, if not virtually impossible post Brexit particularly if you are seeking employment in Spain. Non lucrative visas are extremely challenging too and a lot of people are being turned down apparently.

Sorry, but it begins and ends there unless one of you is fortunate enough to have an EU passport which would change everything. You would be well advised to consult an immigration lawyer and conduct a feasibility study because if you can't secure a visa and/or have limited employment prospects, your other questions are academic.

In your position, I would consider Portugal because it's much easier.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

To be honest to get information regarding possibility achieving what you want to do is not firstly to do with what skills you have. The first hurdle is going to be what passport you and your wife hold. That is the first and key question for both getting advice and route to achieve what you want to do.



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Re: Advice needed for move
 

The thing is though - same as on the forums for Australia/USA/Canada/etc - do you qualify for a visa?

many of us have spent thousands of hours on these forums answering questions about schools/transport/accommodation/etc only to find that the OP has no chance of ever getting a visa.
Put the horse before the cart, see if you qualify for a visa, and then come back with that info - and shedloads of help will come your way 😊

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Don't forget that all available work in Spain must be offered to an EU citizen first and if nobody from the EU is capable of doing the advertised position only then it will be offered to a non EU citizen.

Steve

Re: Advice needed for move
 

In theory thats true for local/national companies but there are many large global companies with presence in Spain who will move employees round internally and that doesn't apply (or certainly they find ways around it) :)

Re: Advice needed for move
 

"who will move employees round"

Yes but they are already employees who are not looking for work as a non EU citizen.

Steve

Re: Advice needed for move
 

They are typically employees in another country (often non EU) and so not employees in Spain. They still effectively start a new contract in Spain and legally it's a 'new' job (or it certainly is in my company when you move to another country). Perhaps there is some kind of exemption for this situation I dont know, but it's quite common.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

#14 and #15
Intra-company transfer, as it's called, is a method for a corporation to move their staff around their international offices/factories/subsidiaries etc. While it's essentially different from an individual applying to work in a country where visa and work permit is needed, the corporation still needs to meet certain requirements, such as the seniority of the employee concerned and demonstrate why it is necessary to transfer instead of recruiting locally. It's not too onerous as they can usually show that the staff member has necessary knowledge and experience to replace another staff member who is being recalled. If they need to increase the number of internal staff being deployed, they need to meet additional requirement.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Back to OP- as many have said unless you specify your nationality and your skill set it is hard for us to answer your questions specifically. However here are some general answers depending on the above
: if not EU national you will need a visa. The fact that you mention work means you would need someone in Spain to have legally offered you a job contract before you can leave UK. You cannot get work visa without showing work contract.
To get a work contract you would need a specific skill ser to which there are no potential EU applicants suitable. This means it would probably be high skilled at a professional level ( engineer, doctor, tech etc) and your qualifications would need to matched with Spanish equivalents.
Unless you were working in a UK company in Spain you would normally be expected to speak Spanish for the Spanis work place
For schools it is a question of age and language. Without Spanish children age 10 can if hard working complete a full Spanish education but it is rare they do as well as the average Spanish . Younger than this and they will struggle to learn Spanish sufficient to progress far in Spanish schools. Private schools are where most British kids attend if starting last year primary or secondary.
You won't get a mortgage unless you have savings and some proof of a stable income source.
Finally be aware that Spain has nothing like the benefit system in UK - so no child benefit and small personal allowance.
Sounds negative I agree but as someone who moved here with a 10 year old I would never recommend it unless you have a good income outside of work as wages here are too low to support a family. Spanish people work as large family units which is how they manage but Brits hardly ever have this available.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Ok lets not ask questions that you havent bothered giving information for...
So assuming you are free and clear to just move here and apply for work.

1. A fair amount of the costa del sol, is like a graveyard in winter. Most of the coastal towns are holiday hot spots. BUT you have already said you know people in this area, so you should be asking them...AND where I would like would not be where you might want too. I would never move somewhere just becasue someone said "Oh its nice here" YOU NEED TO DO SOME BOOTS ON THE GROUND RESEARCH.
2. Flats etc with kids. Why would they not flourish??? My kids grew up in a flat and as far as I can tell neither has turned into a monster (what a silly question). Life here is spent outdoors not cooped up indoors. Not having a garden aint an issue.
3. no job no mortgage.... here comes the first endless circle.. Just like in the Uk or anywhere else...Mortgages here wont lend 4x salary, it will be no more than 30% to 40% of your monthly income. Earn 20k a year and you can borrow an amount equal to €600 to €800 a month max. But without a job.....................
4. Jobs. If you only have a UK passport, nothing... Unless you can find an employer to sponsor you or if you can get an inter company move. Or if you are a rocket scientist. What job do you do now??? Salaries are lower here for the same job (I worked as a pallet wrapper installation engineer and I was paid 30% more than the Spanish bloke who worked for the same company.) Hours are longer as well. We only had to do an eight hour day before O/T kicked in here my opposite number had to do ten and a half. And dont get me started on the other benefits a Uk employee gets over most of the rest of the world.
4a. Your wife again if you work she is not guaranteed to be able too. I dont actually know about this bit. BUT if you come here on an NLV visa You cannot legally work. If you come here on a DNV you cannot work exclusively in the Spanish system. If you come here on a work visa I dont think your family can work (the visa is for you). Obviously there are business visa's and self employed..YOU NEED TO CHECK THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT WEBSITE TO GET THE CORRECT INFO.
5.Learning Spanish, some do some dont. One of our close friends has two children who moved over with her when they were 3 and 5. They are now 19 and 21. The 21 year old is working in bars in Benidorm because she couldn't pick up Spanish very well. The 19 year old is going to university at some point and is very clear, he speaks four languages. Nobody but your children will be able to know the answer to that question. Have you even asked them if they want to move???
6. Making friends is another entirely subjective comment. If you have no friends in the Uk then I doubt you will have any here. A good percentage of us here are retired so we have our social circles. You will have work and lots of it so your workmates will be your friends. Your wife should be able to make friends with the other mothers...

But if you could have been bothered to give us a better understanding of your background maybe the answers might have been better.

Call me a cynical sod, but your opening post has all the hallmarks of a bait and trap used by a troll.... I could be wrong and sometimes I am.....

Re: Advice needed for move
 

I never fails to amaze me when members continue to try to put useful information on a thread even when an OP has made it clear in a rude manner that they do no appreciate the time that members have put into sharing their knowledge.

Thanks to all of you who are being helpful.

Rosemary

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Thank you to everyone who have taken the time and trouble to try to help the OP. Hopefully he will take the comments on board and realize that we are a very helpful group.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Snap. :D

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Ha, ha, we were on the same wavelength.

Rosemary

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Fantastic post by Barriej !

Re: Advice needed for move
 

If you can already legally live and work in Spain ie already have the correct “paperwork” then just say so and you will gain lots of help to your other questions, if you do not have the legal requirements to live and work in Spain then say so and the good people in this site will help you as much as possible with how you may be able to “gain” the correct visa but you have not offered this information.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

The OP has made it very clear that he simply wants answers to the original questions and nothing else. So not really looking for other help.

Rosemary

Re: Advice needed for move
 

In my opinion we won’t see the OP here on this thread again as he appears to me to have taken offence at some of the initial responses supplied. I wonder whether a sticky is needed to direct future similar posts as one of the existing stickies contains broken links https://britishexpats.com/forum/spai...-spain-947506/

Re: Advice needed for move
 

So a few answers from someone who has friends that have moved to Spain -

Many millions of people across the world bring up their kids in flats. I have friends in Italy, Spain, Australia and the UK doing just that Just look for a flat large enough for a family - its incredibly common across Europe for families in cities to live in apartment buildings :) Be warned though - they don't all have pools!

For any job you'd need a good level of Spanish, as friends of mine have discovered. Even in tourist areas its essential as the tourists go home but you need to deal with the locals 365 days a year.


The language barrier is going to come into play here. My own Spanish is non-existent but sign language and google translate are good tools! A friend of mine who lives over there now has managed to acquire a basic level of Spanish and Galician in 3 years, but has finally decided he needs proper lessons - and this from a guy who mastered other languages from French to Arabic in his younger days. He's got some fairly good mates in Spain now, but there's still a barrier when it comes to slang and colloquialisms which doesn't help when trying to lake lasting friends.
As in other countries, having children in school helps, once you start meeting the other parents.

If your 10 year old isn't already learning the language, and customs, info about life in Spain etc, start them on it now so they can hit the ground running :)

Hope tis helps a little!

Re: Advice needed for move
 

I have unstuck the "New Guide" sticky, thanks for highlighting this to me.

A new sticky to replace it will not be implemented due to the difficulties of maintaining up to date information.

Rosemary

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Perhaps this sorry tale will illustrate for those who don't realise just how difficult it can be for British passport holders to be able to work legally in Spain now, and that when we tell them that we are not just being negative and trying to thwart their dreams.

Stockport assistant Andy Mangan denied Real Madrid move due to Brexit regulations | Stockport | The Guardian

Re: Advice needed for move
 

I tried to search for why he was rejected but couldn't find anything. It'd be interesting to know if was due to Real Madrid not being able to demonstrate they'd tried to find someone inside the EU with the same skills first or if it was because of some procedural issue like not having medical coverage for a while or the person handling his application was an Atlético fan ;).

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Then there is this story from a couple of days ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...me-post-brexit

As I've said before, it seems that British people are struggling to get their heads around the loss of EU freedom of movement and what it really means. It's hardly surprising because it's unprecedented to have part of your citizenship removed in peacetime. Just telling people in an inadequate leaflet that they would lose freedom of movement was nowhere near enough, it needed spelling out.

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Re: Advice needed for move
 

No sympathy... Totally the bloke in the reports fault...
You are required to have private healthcare in place and paid for a year in advance to qualify.
At no point does or did the EHIC cover general medical expenses and is not acceptable for the residency..
Ours was in place three months before we actually got here, but would have been valid at the point we arrived had it not been for covid.

​​​​​​But he said he was shocked to find he was rejected because he did not have the “right kind of private healthcare” in place between April and May of 2021, the first full year of the UK’s existence outside the EU. An EHIC tourist health card covered him for the first three months but it was not until May when his private insurance kicked in.

As a teacher you would think he would have been educated enough to actually read what Valencia wanted for residency applications. I only have a CSE in English Lit, Maths and TD and I figured it out...
Said I wasnt going to post on these things again but........

Re: Advice needed for move
 

"Said I wasnt going to post on these things again but........"
Can't resist it though 😃

Steve

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Likely because he was/is a convicted criminal (match fixing)

Re: Advice needed for move
 

That was an FA fine and ban, as far as I know it doesn't mean a criminal record.

Player at heart of betting scandal reveals illegal gambling is rife

Re: Advice needed for move
 

My error .... I had scan read it and it mentioned 'convicted' which I guess is in the context of the FA

Re: Advice needed for move
 

Very few countries allow you to travel to them or indeed to live in them without additional requirements. Indeed when the U.K. was still in the EU it was necessary to show your passport to enter France. Even EU citizens from other EU countries have to go through a process to live in another EU country.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

I found my current job on LinkedIn for a US company with offices in Madrid and Seville but I am fully remote in Malaga, worth checking it out although they generally dont put salaries on the job adverts. Salary would depend on industry and seniority obviously but UK comparible salaries are out there if you get lucky. Gibraltar has good UK level salaries in sterling if you can be bothered with the border, when I worked in Gib we had people commute in from Malaga and fuengirola area.

Re: Advice needed for move
 

The UK was never in the Schengen common border area so of course when entering France you had to show your passport (and likewise on arrival in the UK on your way back). A national ID would have sufficed but sadly the UK remains an ID-less country so people had to lug their passport along everywhere.

What EU citizens have to do to live in another EU country is peanuts, an absolute formality compared from what people from outside the EU (no difference between the UK or Morocco for instance) have to do in order to reside in the EU.

In fact many EU nationals that don't intend to work locally often don't even bother registering...