InVinoVeritas

That just makes it all the more puzzling. If the tests are so unrealistic then why did VW need cheat software and the others didn't? And since this was known about by VW's US CEO in Spring 2014 why haven't they yet been able to find a fix?

Fred James

The problem first came to light in May 2014 when A US university tested two cars (A 2013 Passat and a 2012 Jetta) under real world driving conditions and found a big difference in the NOx emissions (note nothing to do with CO2 or fuel consumption) compared to the lab test results.

VW were advised of this which is why the US CEO says he was aware of it in 2014.

VW issued a recall of all the affected vehicles in December 2014. It is not clear exactly what was done during the recall, but when the cars were retested by the university, there was very little change in the results. At this point, when confronted with this information, VW admitted that a "defeat" device had been fitted. At was at this point that the proverbial hit the fan.

You can read the full details of the case here.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf

It is not clear which other cars were tested at the same time or whether they found any other problems.

Dick Dasterdly

Latest news is that German prosecutors and investigators are raiding the VW Wolfsburg HQ.

Still a long way to run with this affair before they discover the full truth regarding who was responsible, who was aware of it and how far back did the cheating begin.

Fred James

It went back to at least 2009 - read the link I gave earlier.

But that was in the US. There is still no evidence that any VW in Europe, even if fitted with the default device, has actually "cheated" on an EU emissions test. By "cheated" I mean gained an advantage by having the device fitted during an emissions test.

All the evidence so far suggests that it is pretty easy to pass the Euro5 test without messing around with the ECU.

This whole thing has been blown up out of all proportion, probably by the US motor industry who hate the idea of European imported diesels.

The use of these defeat devices is hardly "new" news - it's been going on in the US for 20 years. In 1995 Cadillac were fined $45m for fitting these devices in 500000 cars. Other companies that have been involved are Ford, Toyota, Renault and Volvo.

10/22/98: PR DOJ, EPA ANNOUNCE ONE BILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT WITH DIESEL ENGINE INDUSTRY FOR CLEAN AIR VIOLATIONS

Dick Dasterdly

Las 10 marcas de coches con más defectos de fábrica

Interesting list.
Number one is no great surprise. Surprising to see a few Japanese ones in there as well, though quality control in the country of manufacture may have much to do with, it as possibly with VW also.
I often look at reliability and satisfaction review comparisons based on customer feedback and German marks especially VW often appear low on the list in those also.

Fred James

So you didn't read the 2015 JD Power survey where the Skoda came top.

EMR

GM is recalling up to 32000 suv,s and asked the owners not to use the windscreen wipers because there is the risk of a short and fire. Fire kills.
They will collect the vehicles from the owners if necessary.

johnnyone

The difference is that wasn't as a result of blatant deceit.

EMR

That would be a lot of help if you would be the victim of a car fire caused by faulty equipment and the car manufacturer said , it could have been worse , you could have been driving a VW.
Have VW sales slumped, have prices for second hand cars dropped.
I have not seen any evidence of this in the UK.

johnnyone

There are regularly recalls due to rectify faults etc. and manufacturers should suffer the consequences of those but of no relevance to this debate that relates to rigging.

EMR

VW is guilty of a offence but not one that was NOT a risk to the safety of drivers and passengers.
Had this been a US manufacturer I doubt that there would have been half the fuss.

Fred James

99% of the fuss is coming from Europe at the moment rather than from the US.

Their big mistake was putting the "defeat" device on all their cars when it was almost certainly needed for only the US spec cars, due to their extremely low emissions limit.

So far there is no evidence at all that having it on the vehicles subject to the EU test has made any difference. The only comparisons done so far are comparing on the road emissions to the lab test results and all manufacturers are subject to anomalies due to the design of the test which clearly does not emulate on the road conditions and usage.

Sadly, it looks as we won't know until next year, when they start modifying the affected cars and someone will then test them again.

EMR

Next year when we are in the states and I am stuck behind a big 18 wheeler truck belting out huge clouds of smoke I will think to myself it could have been worse if it was a vw car.

johnnyone

This is not about the fault but about business ethics. People, rightly, were quick to lambast the bankers. Is VW's behaviour any different to rigging Libor rates?

EMR

Was vw behaviour more about the US restrictions against imported vehicles.
It was a stupid effort that was bound to be found out one day but in the scale of frauds is way down the league compared to the bankers.