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600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Old Jan 6th 2018, 11:39 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Well done you for clearing other people's rubbish from the beach. Presumably it was left there because there was zero signage telling them not to.
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 7:31 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Good shot Ned!
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 7:05 pm
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by systematic1
Hello all,
I'm wondering if anyone can help me with this....

During a surfing holiday in Lanzarote back in may I parked at a beach within the National Park. It's a popular place, beach goers park along either side of a narrow road, and we did the same. Yesterday I received a 17 page dossier (in Spanish) accusing me of raping the environment.

Its from Guardia Civil, Medioambiente. They produced photo's of my hire car parked with 2 wheels on the sand. This constitutes an infingement of their environmental laws and carries a fine of between 600 & 6000 euros, my fine being at the former end of the scale.

If this was in the UK I'd know how to fight it, there was zero signage for example. But it's not in the Uk.

So should I.....Pay up (20% reduction), contest (losing 20% reduction and probably requiring a lawyer and a trip to lanzarote) or ingnore and never set foot on Spanish soil again????

From what I can translate my letter contains: an initial charge from Guardia Civil to the hire company, a document naming me as the driver from the hire company, and minutes from court proceedings decreeing that I am liable.

It's definitely genuine before anyone suggests otherwise, but scams are harder to ignore when they are run by the government....

Any experts on Spanish law out there?!?!?!
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In the initial instance, you'll have to pay up.

But then, examine the documents to ensure that they haven't made a mistake (fairly common). It's an opportunity for you to learn some legal spanish ! Unfortunately, targeting foreigners is the norm. No local vehicles will have received a fine.

To start the process of reclaiming your money, u can then start a "recurso" which means they have to look into the matter again. After that there is another procedure where an administrative judge adjudicates the matter independently. It will all be in the letter you received.

The yellow belly immigrant brits posting on here everyday don't know anything. They're happy to lie on their backs squealing like pigs rather than challenge a spaniard or the spanish system. They're scared that they won't be liked anymore, lol. You can also see it in the way the Europeans are kicking their asses with regard the EU exit.
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by missile
No sign, doesn't mean you have any right to park on the grass / pavement / spaces marked for disabled / wild camp etc.

I was on the road, with literally just my nearside wheels on the sand. As was every other car on that road. Doing otherwise would have blocked the road.

Anyone know how to pay this thing?? Can't translate any refernence to it, or find anywhere to do it online - it states how much the fine will be but doesn't elabourate on how to actually pay it.
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by avocados
In the initial instance, you'll have to pay up.

But then, examine the documents to ensure that they haven't made a mistake (fairly common). It's an opportunity for you to learn some legal spanish ! Unfortunately, targeting foreigners is the norm. No local vehicles will have received a fine.

To start the process of reclaiming your money, u can then start a "recurso" which means they have to look into the matter again. After that there is another procedure where an administrative judge adjudicates the matter independently. It will all be in the letter you received.

The yellow belly immigrant brits posting on here everyday don't know anything. They're happy to lie on their backs squealing like pigs rather than challenge a spaniard or the spanish system. They're scared that they won't be liked anymore, lol. You can also see it in the way the Europeans are kicking their asses with regard the EU exit.
Great! Thanks for this, although please no brexit talk! We get enough of that shit as it is.

Interesting angle, I didn't realise that I could fight this after the event. I do feel very much that this is both unfair and wildly disproportionate, so am reluctant to allow them to bend one into me without a squeal or two.
A friend in Lanzarote has advised that he has previously had somethng similar, protested at lack of signage and had it dropped straight away. He is local though, and I presume they will be less likely to let it go for a foreigner.
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 8:37 pm
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by avocados
In the initial instance, you'll have to pay up.

But then, examine the documents to ensure that they haven't made a mistake (fairly common). It's an opportunity for you to learn some legal spanish ! Unfortunately, targeting foreigners is the norm. No local vehicles will have received a fine.

To start the process of reclaiming your money, u can then start a "recurso" which means they have to look into the matter again. After that there is another procedure where an administrative judge adjudicates the matter independently. It will all be in the letter you received.

The yellow belly immigrant brits posting on here everyday don't know anything. They're happy to lie on their backs squealing like pigs rather than challenge a spaniard or the spanish system. They're scared that they won't be liked anymore, lol. You can also see it in the way the Europeans are kicking their asses with regard the EU exit.
You were actually doing really well in the first two paragraphs, useful even. Well done on that, much better than before so you ARE getting there.

But then...... 'Chucky' your evil twin took over again. Usual speculative, gutless keyboard warrior garbage designed to shock before you leave the room laughing to whichever part of yourself is 'in' today.

Sad. Its funny to see its normally about 9.00 for the rant again, is that just before 'Nursey' calls then?

Last edited by lurchio; Jan 7th 2018 at 8:45 pm.
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 9:28 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by avocados
In the initial instance, you'll have to pay up.

But then, examine the documents to ensure that they haven't made a mistake (fairly common). It's an opportunity for you to learn some legal spanish ! Unfortunately, targeting foreigners is the norm. No local vehicles will have received a fine.

To start the process of reclaiming your money, u can then start a "recurso" which means they have to look into the matter again. After that there is another procedure where an administrative judge adjudicates the matter independently. It will all be in the letter you received.

The yellow belly immigrant brits posting on here everyday don't know anything. They're happy to lie on their backs squealing like pigs rather than challenge a spaniard or the spanish system. They're scared that they won't be liked anymore, lol. You can also see it in the way the Europeans are kicking their asses with regard the EU exit.
Racist rubbish. If you are so bigoted against the Spanish & the EU perhaps you should go back "home" to England.

Last edited by missile; Jan 7th 2018 at 10:04 pm.
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Old Jan 7th 2018, 10:12 pm
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

It is a hefty fine but you may be paying for the time and effort required to find you, provide you with evidence (photos) and explain the situation ( you mention a 17 page dossier). You say that you don't know how to make the payment but surely there is an address somewhere in all that paperwork. Don't like the way the posts are going at the moment so I would suggest payment to get your 20% reduction and pretend to yourself that you're only paying it back in instalments over 12 months. You surely don't want this to drag on or leave it unpaid and risk something worse the next time you visit Spain.
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Old Jan 8th 2018, 4:35 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

It is a shocking sum, probably includes court fees as there was a hearing. It bugs me when you get a notice to pay something, but no info on how to pay it. I had the same when I starting paying UK tax on self assessment basis.


So I've had a look around the web, and these links may help:


https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...-parking-fine/


suggests you can pay online if the ticket was issued by the Guardia Civil (as you say it was)


https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...a/&prev=search


Click "Payment of fines" Scroll down and click on Payment of fines without Digital Certificate . Obviously I can't work through the rest of the form to see if it actually works!

Last edited by FranE; Jan 8th 2018 at 4:38 am.
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Old Jan 8th 2018, 5:08 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by FranE
It is a shocking sum, probably includes court fees as there was a hearing. It bugs me when you get a notice to pay something, but no info on how to pay it. I had the same when I starting paying UK tax on self assessment basis.


So I've had a look around the web, and these links may help:


https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...-parking-fine/


suggests you can pay online if the ticket was issued by the Guardia Civil (as you say it was)


https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...a/&prev=search


Click "Payment of fines" Scroll down and click on Payment of fines without Digital Certificate . Obviously I can't work through the rest of the form to see if it actually works!
FranE, thank you so much for taking the time to look at this, most kind of you!


I did previously find my way to the DGT site in the hope of paying, but my issue isn't actually a traffic offence so it's not possible there. It's a fine for 'damaging' the protected soils of the national park.

To be perfectly honest my translation of the documents has been through google translate and is patchy at best. I think what I have is more like a notification that I'm going to have to pay the money rather than a direct request for it - would that be normal? That said it definitely says I have 20 days to pay, but as mentioned it gives no clue as to how (or who) to pay.

I'll have a good look through the citizens advice page you linked, answer could well be in there somewhere. Thanks again!!
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Old Jan 8th 2018, 5:10 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Should have known a fellow Devonian would do their best to help!!
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Old Jan 8th 2018, 5:13 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by missile
Racist rubbish. If you are so bigoted against the Spanish & the EU perhaps you should go back "home" to England.
No one here says 'yellow bellied'... this dude's from The States? (queue violent non-american backlash)
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Old Jan 8th 2018, 5:38 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by systematic1
No one here says 'yellow bellied'... this dude's from The States? (queue violent non-american backlash)
Don't worry about it, just hum the Benny Hill theme to youself when the ranting starts, I do.
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Old Jan 8th 2018, 7:57 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Originally Posted by systematic1
No one here says 'yellow bellied'... this dude's from The States? (queue violent non-american backlash)
The rather fine Aussie band Midnight Oil mentions a yellow bellied black snake in the opening lines to this protest song Do yourself a favour and have a listen, it'll help you forget all about internet trolls who only post to get noticed. Don't mind the demented dancing, it's part of his charm

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Old Jan 8th 2018, 8:54 am
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Default Re: 600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??

Not only a Devonian, but also a retired lawyer, and this has piqued my interest.


Don't claim to know anything about Spanish law, but there are certain rules of "natural justice" which I imagine would apply in most civilised countries. The first is that the accused should be notified of court proceedings so as to be able to defend themselves. It interested me that you were not (apparently) aware of the proceedings resulting in the fine.


I've been all over the web (pages that were translated to English anyway) and found some relevant comments: one to the effect of "make sure it's a final judgment" before you pay; and many others about the court taking into account your financial position before imposing either an immediately payable fine OR a "daily fine" which, as far as I can make out, is x euros for x number of days.


It follows (I think) that this may be a notification of the fine subject to your right to make submissions about your ability to pay. Or possibly to appeal.


That may well be why there's no indication of how to pay ie it's not yet final. I note you've been given 20 days to pay though! Can't help with that!


Seems a lot of us here assumed it was a parking fine. The Guardia Ambiente is a division of the GC tasked with patrolling / protecting the national parks. It is a central organisation with regional divisions. There are national laws governing national parks, and from what I've read they are pretty tough. Contraventions are criminal offences. A fine which is imposed by a court or tribunal as a criminal sanction is payable to the State.


I can't find anything on how to actually pay a criminal fine. Perhaps that's because, as with my tax issue, they tell you that later when the money actually becomes due.


Bit risky though. If it were me, I'd get the document professionally translated or find a Spanish lawyer - there are lots in the UK.
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