Orbit24

Hi _0v0_,

As someone looking at NZ as a possible place to relocate to I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this morbid ennui.

I have read many posts and reviews by ex-pats in the UK, NZ and AU among others. One of the things some South African's miss once they've moved to more developed countries is the rhythem/pulse/excitement of living in SA.
Horses for courses is an important aspect to bear in mind.

As a married middle class 30 something with 2 kids in Junior Primary, I think your evaluation of SA on the 22nd Jan about somes up the reality for most people in my circle of acquaintences..

kiwibok

Check out the New Zealand thread. Its very active!!



For some though. Its a little too much. Living in houses with high walls, not being able to walk the streets, electric fences, beggars etc ...

It depends on your level of normality. Each to there own. And if you happy with the above, and that adds to your "rhythm/pulse/excitement", as you put it. Then go for it. You only live once.

kevin04

Apologies for writing about NZ, but I spent 4 months traveling there but decided not to stay any longer.

NZ is a beautiful country. I love the potluck of finding a town and not having any indication on how it is going to be. Some of not much better standard of housing, development than certain parts of South Africa even (the north cape of NZ etc) whilst over small towns and cities are beautiful and very cosy.

I think the distance is a lot for European expats. It's far, far away from 'home' and not only does it take near on a full day of traveling minus the stop overs, it costs an arm and leg. If you have a close family and friend circle, I think many would suffer from living in New Zealand.

NZ is amazing though. The North Island is exotic and wonderful. Some wonderful sites and places to visit with a fairly decent climate. The South is equally as beautiful, but colder and looks more like what we are sold in the media as a Scottish or Irish looking place.

AngelaV

For me, South Africa is a great place to live!

Personally, I was victim to way more crime in the UK than I have in the 12 years I have lived here. I have not experienced anything negative (except corrupt government officials of course!).

I have lived in Johannesburg where we did have fencing around the house but I actually quite liked it. The kids could play in the garden without me worrying about them. We live in the Western Cape now, we lead a very active outdoor lifestyle and yes, we do take precautions but I don't feel insecure/unsafe in the slightest.

_0v0_

I've lived in NZ for over ten years and have taken out citizenship and have children who were born here. I am originally from England.

Having experienced increasing homesickness I decided late last year that I wanted to leave NZ. Then I spent Christmas in South Africa and realised I'd be very happy to move there, should I find suitable work - which makes me think that actually NZ is the problem.

Basically NZ is a place where nothing much really happens, and people make a virtue out of being ordinary. In some respects this is a very good thing - it teaches people humility and also not to look down on others. In some respects it is a very bad thing - trying to excel in anything (except sport) can create suspicion.

It is also a very conformist society - this is probably to an extent less so in Auckland, but out in the provinces, you are expected to be like everyone else.

This means one has to take an interest in ordinary, everyday things (no matter how dull they are). I think this can be a real problem for South Africans who may like, for example, to discuss politics, culture and the like: the richness of these things in South Africa is completely beyond the experience of the average New Zealander.

My experience is that some South Africans find this aspect of NZ society really, really hard.

The upside of life in NZ is low crime, well-functioning state, roads get fixed, generous welfare provision - things can't go really badly wrong - however, they do not make for an exciting life.

I am concerned that my children will grow up living a sort of half-life should they stay here - there is to my mind little encouragement for them to explore what life and the world have to offer in schools and society here.

_0v0_

I am not proposing a move to the Cape Flats.

kiwibok

But you said this ... (Not the cape flats)

Why would any normal person want to live like that?

Each to there own. And if you happy with the above, and that adds to your "rhythm/pulse/excitement", as you put it. Then go for it. You only live once.

_0v0_

I said "crime" appeared to be high in the white areas (although compared to SA as a whole it is low). I did not say "rape". I'm pleased to say that I didn't observe any rapes being committed while in South Africa, nor did I read about them*.

In any event, most rapes are by people known to the assailant, e.g. partner, boyfriend and so on. So it seems to me that a woman who lives in a safe house in safe part of a city - even CPT - is proportionally more unlikely to get raped than be the victim of some other crime.

*This might seem an odd point but I noticed that in SA the way newspapers etc mentioned sex (if at all) it was in a slightly giggly way as a taboo subject. I find this very odd given the prevalence of HIV/AIDS and, of course, rape. Any comment?

Pablo

A significant proportion, if not a majority, of South African girls lose their virginity by rape.

Similarly one observes gross sexism and sexual harassment - cat-calling, touching-up, and yes, rape.

Others may point out that this is a black thing, and they are right. Though I believe "cultural" or "traditional" is the fashionable term.

The prudishness when talking about sex is also rather a black thing. It always strikes me as odd that they are so happy to do it, but so bashful to speak of it.

Orbit24

Thanks for the varied responses and input.

Your opinion greatly appreciated. I think that some of what you describe is what some SA'ns (especially those that have experienced violent crime) look for in their new country. Whilst lifestyle is great for the reasonably well-healed and up, much of South Africa is in a state of flux.
From the changing of road names to town names, new scandals, new initiatives to defeat the scandals, new infrastructure developements, the corruption uncovered in the new infrastructure developement, the rise of Julius Malema, the fall of Julius, the changing social demographic to probably poorly name a few.
I'm have not doubt that some find the idea of a safe environment where things remain the same stable way year in and year out quite appealing.

Sidenote: The above has a negative slant to it for the sake of illustration. There is an abundance of unmentioned positives that keep people immigrating to SA every year.

I agree with your statements on SA completely BTW.

Because it doesn't bother some of the population to the point where they feel the need to find an alternative country to live in. The positives outway the negatives and the risks appear lesser to some than others, versus the way of life they value and enjoy. 'Normal' truly is a subjective term when it comes to people and their reasons for immigration..

Ed once summed up a rational I see in so many of my fellow South Africans very well: