Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
#1
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Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
Was Slovenia a better place when it was part of the multi-ethnic Austro-Hungarian Empire ? A question asked many times by the unfortunate Joseph Roth. Read his novel (or see the film) "Radetzkymarsch".
#2
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
No - not Kaiser Bill. That was a different Empire ! Think Austro-Hungary, not Germany !
#3
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
It was a joke & tongue in cheek..... Glad you took it that way.
Strictly come Dancing is hardly more important than history , or is it?
Cheers, M
Strictly come Dancing is hardly more important than history , or is it?
Cheers, M
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
I meant this one and got his name half-wrong. A much nicer man than Queen Vic's awful grandson, Kaiser Bill ! And he was King-Emperor for a long time - 1848 to 1916 !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph_I_of_Austria
Austro-Hungary was a remarkable institution stretching from Trieste to Krakow and Karlsbad to Sarajevo. Vienna in the period before WW1 saw a remarkable display of talent - much better than "Strictly" and The "X-Factor" !!
Alii bella gerunt, tu felix Austria nube !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph_I_of_Austria
Austro-Hungary was a remarkable institution stretching from Trieste to Krakow and Karlsbad to Sarajevo. Vienna in the period before WW1 saw a remarkable display of talent - much better than "Strictly" and The "X-Factor" !!
Alii bella gerunt, tu felix Austria nube !
Last edited by scot47; Jan 9th 2014 at 7:10 pm.
#5
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
Was Rhodesia a better place - I mean for the average Black man - under Ian Smith?
Was India (with Pakistan and Bangladesh) a better place under Victoria, Empress of India? Or even under the British East India Company?
(I can tell you, an elderly Sri Lankan - ethnic Singhalese - came up to me in 1983, as Singhalese gangs were murdering Tamils in the streets, and said: "This would never have happened under British rule." )
Slovenia under Austria was a colony. If you accepted the status quo, I dare say you did ok. It just depends on desires and wishes of the time.
If you are a pleb, have chaos, no security, no health care, no rule of law, no running water under your own kin (sort of), then, even under a foreign emperor, if there is a rule of law, things feel and actually get better.
Except after 30 years, people forget what it was like under the former regime, and start to want to rule themselves .......
cue demagoguey, and get rich quick merchants ........
Was India (with Pakistan and Bangladesh) a better place under Victoria, Empress of India? Or even under the British East India Company?
(I can tell you, an elderly Sri Lankan - ethnic Singhalese - came up to me in 1983, as Singhalese gangs were murdering Tamils in the streets, and said: "This would never have happened under British rule." )
Slovenia under Austria was a colony. If you accepted the status quo, I dare say you did ok. It just depends on desires and wishes of the time.
If you are a pleb, have chaos, no security, no health care, no rule of law, no running water under your own kin (sort of), then, even under a foreign emperor, if there is a rule of law, things feel and actually get better.
Except after 30 years, people forget what it was like under the former regime, and start to want to rule themselves .......
cue demagoguey, and get rich quick merchants ........
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
I just wanted to remind people that Slovenia has had a turbulent past - especially in the last 100 years !
#7
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
OK, I think it's true to say that - with the exception of regional conflicts (eg Northern Ireland, Basque country, etc) western Europe has never had it so good, ever, since 1945.
Sure, it's fair to say that with the break up of Yugoslavia, Slovenia's recent history has been more of an upheaval than, say, .... ok, try Luxembourg - but I think you'd agree that compared to the rest of Yugo, Slovenia's exit was pretty smooth. (of course, for the 18 - 20 Slovenes killed in the various fire-fights, that would not be true.)
But why mention just the last 100 years? There was continual upheavals in the 19C in the region.
I confess I'm not sure when Slovenia was consolidated under Austria - probably around the late 1700s, I'd guess - but the Istrian litoral would have still been under Venice for some decades, and Prekmurje under Hungary for many years up to world war I.
HlFL
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Re: Better Under Kaiser Joseph ?
Part of the Holy Roman Empire and then dominated by the Habsburgs from the 14th century. There is a long Wikipedia entry. Life is too short, my eyes too dim and if I read it I would forget it by tomorrow. Here is a short extracxt -
"In the 14th century, most of the territory of Slovenia was taken over by the Habsburgs. The counts of Celje, a feudal family from this area who in 1436 acquired the title of state princes, were their powerful competitors for some time. This large dynasty, important at a European political level, had its seat in Slovene territory but died out in 1456. Its numerous large estates subsequently became the property of the Habsburgs, who retained control of the area right up until the beginning of the 20th century"
"In the 14th century, most of the territory of Slovenia was taken over by the Habsburgs. The counts of Celje, a feudal family from this area who in 1436 acquired the title of state princes, were their powerful competitors for some time. This large dynasty, important at a European political level, had its seat in Slovene territory but died out in 1456. Its numerous large estates subsequently became the property of the Habsburgs, who retained control of the area right up until the beginning of the 20th century"