SGPDiver

Hi and I am intending on moving to Singapore within the next 3-4 months for a period of 1 year or more. I have been reading the threads on this forum but have some basic queries:

1) Is SGP property rental more expensive than central London? It appears extortionate and poor value for money. I understand that houses are just a plain no go and that for a nice 3 bed condo with good modern facilities and sea views you can expect to pay over S$4K per month - can it be this expensive?
2) What areas or districts can one rely on for a comfortable neighbourhood or more importantly are there any places that one should avoid?
3) Is aircon throughout standard or do you need to check this?
4) Is a 2 year rental period that normal that it will be hard to find less?

Any help would be appreciated.

Otherwise the other info was a gr8 help and I think generally I am really going to enjoy the experience Singapore Day last year in London helped even if the oversize balloons with safety messages are a bit OTT!

Englishmum

TBH I'm not up to date with London property rentals as we left the UK 15 years ago; spouse is on his 2nd posting to Singapore. On the whole I would say that yes, rentals are on a par or to tend to be more than in London. However, how many London properties come with a swimming pool, gym, tennis court and sometimes even a clubhouse and mini-mart plus 24 hour security?

For a start, the sea views aren't that spectacular in Singapore....expect to sea dozens and dozens of oil tankers and container ships....! Presumably you are considering the East Coast where most of the condos with sea views are located, the downside is that the expressway to the airport, the East Coast Parkway is six lanes and located between the beaches/East coast park and all the condos and traffic noise can be considerable at all hours of the day and evening. You can find inexpensive terraced houses with a tiny yard and many expats to live in them, but you won't get the condo facilities (it's lovely to have the use of a pool 24/7 though when you live in the tropics, although there are public swimming pools. I wouldn't even think of swimming in the sea, it's not clean).

Properties in the outlying districts away from the CBD, Orchard Road vicinity are usually much cheaper to rent, eg. Pasir Ris, Changi, Loyang.

Most places are very safe to live in, however you might not be too keen on Geylang (red light district) or parts of Little India...very noisy and full of thousands of male construction workers from South Asia on Sundays and public holidays. TBH most western expats to tend to prefer to live in a community with at least some other expats and not go totally 'local', althought the locals are generally friendly.

You haven't mentioned if you will be bringing a family with you or not? This will be a huge factor in where you may choose to live....eg. schools...also will you have a car?

Pretty much all properties will have aircon in all rooms (not kitchen or bathrooms though!) sometimes there is central aircon but more often individual units operated by remote control. Electricity is v. expensive so we only have aircon on in the bedrooms at night and have windows open during the day.

I don't know why but it is the norm for 2 year rental contracts, but yes you can get them for less; everything is open to negotiation. Never pay the rental price being asked, it is inflated and the market is flooded with empty new and old apartments as so many expats have left in the past year. The agents always show everyone the worst apartments and houses to begin with, the stuff they've had on their books for ages and where the landlords are hassling them to show prospective tenants around. Eventually they will start showing you the better stuff! Newer apartments tend to cost more but are usually smaller than the older ones which can be huge (eg. there is a condo near ours called Pandan Valley - they are enormous some are beautifully renovated with full condo facilities and v. cheap to rent).

Hope this helps, ultimately it will come down to your family situation though. BTW if you are bringing kids, all the international schools offer a door-to-door bus service islandwide. Some expat kids do go to local schools, but it's not the norm considering the nos. of expats living in Singapore.

ex reg

Just a short reply.
Aren't you doing a pre move visit.
Try and get one sorted.

I'd say even in this financial climate a nice 3 bed condo will be more than 4k a month.

At the moment ours is coming up for renewal, we are landlords, it's a 2 bed unit in the east coast and we rent it out for 5.5k a month.
Will probably re sign for 4.75 to 5 k a month.

Mind you many on here will say outrageous and way over the odds.
You get what you pay for and yes you can probably get something for what you suggest but you won't be happy with it.

If you arrive from UK after 6 April 2010 then you will have to be out of the UK until at least 5 April 2112 in order to become non resident for UK tax, so 12 months may not suit you well for that.

On areas to stay:

East Coast is generally thought of as 'resort style living' more relaxed than elsewhere

Holland Rd area is quite UK, Aust etc ex patish, bit too overcrowded imo.

Orchard Rd area is city style living some nice aparts next to the river

West coast is a bit industrial but Ok, we live there and I like it.

Download a map of the MRT and look at the stations on that and cross check with areas you might want to live.
There are some online property sites which will give you an idea of how much you might pay for where.

Enough from me.
Others will have different ideas, perhaps more to your liking.

Lastly A/C will be fitted in all properties you will be shown but try to live without it, using just pedestal fans.
You'll get used to it in a month or so and IMO it'll make your stay here easier.

Oh just on Pandan Valley which english mum mentioned.
It is a big condo development and although old it's quite nice there, but not on the MRT line.
If you drive and have a car it's very convenient for everything.
Buses here are very good and bus to Orchard from Pandan Valley may take 15 minutes.
Taxes also are easy to get.
All public transport is as good as anywhere in the world.
We lived without a car and used Public Transport for a year or two but in the end the convenience of a car couldn;t be done without.
Just another thought, rush hour car driving is now a nightmare so that might influence a decision.

SGPDiver

Thanks to you both for some very useful info.

And to reply to Ex reg I am doing a full investigation in SGP within the next month prior to committing myself, as once committed (!) will most probably stay 2-3 years and more, however I am not overly keen on being tied in on a long lease as one's initial choice of property does not always prove to be the wisest. 6 months in SGP with local knowledge should allow me to make a more grounded decision.

Regarding rental figures the area info is very useful and now down to my research and legwork.

Many thanks Ex reg.

SGPDiver

Hi Englishmum and appreciate the in depth reply.

To answer specifically, yes we will need ideally to be close an MRT station as my partner will be based in the CBD. No kids yet so the school thing does not apply. From Ex reg's comments this may rule out the Pandan Condo, so if I can refine please my search criteria with you?

Practically I don't think I can avoid a car, however no airs and graces here, a tidy cheap "banger" will suffice. Are there any little suprises in store for me with owning or leasing a vehicle and SGP rules and regs vol 64, chapter 17?!

My internet property quest now continues...........

ex reg

Just on cars, there's a site called mycarforum which you might google and visit for info, they have a for sale section iirc for 2nd hand cars.

There is a deal on at the moment at Toyota for a Corolla Altis 1.6 l automatic, most people drive automatics here, for S$62500.

A second hand 1.6 car 3 years old or so might cost S$40000 to 45000 from the main dealer of course it would be cheaper privately.

Car rentals for a 2 year old 1.6 whatever would be S$110 per day a bit cheaper long term. I'd guess leasing might be a similar cost.

I would guess many from Pandan Condo might bus it to the Central Business District.

SGPDiver

Hi again Ex Reg, many thanks and think I may stick with the public transport option unless mycarforum provides something wonderful. I had heard cars were very expensive and not really practical with such a good public network so no real surprise. I don't know if you or anyone else can help with the below, as specific info saves hours of endless Googling?:

1) In the UK we have the MCA Maritime and Coastguard Agency for all matters relating to playing & working on the water with powered craft. Can anyone help with the SGP equivalent? I've Googled the SGP Coastguard and they are Police based and looking after SGP's security which is not really relevant.
2) Any general pro's and con's for keeping a powerboat, mooring fees etc?
3) Any hassle with jumping on your boat and going over to Malaysia for a day's diving and lunch in a Malay beach front restaurant?
4) Do pleasure trips require you to lodge your intended passage plan, as you are leaving SGP waters and entering Malay waters, or are short recreational hops deemed not relevant?

Once again, many thanks in anticipation. This forum is proving valuable for the local knowledge.

ex reg

Although I did quite a bit of sailing in UK and elsewhere I've never bothered here.
Google 'Singapore Yacht Clubs' and you should get quite a few hits.
In the close vicinity to Singapore I wouldn't say there were many seaside restaurants you'd motor to for lunch unlike some other places.

Dunno about Customs and Immig for that either although on business I've done a 2 hr fast cruiser trip to Karimun Island and it was passports etc both ends, and no way round it.

Certainly the short ferry to Malaysia and Indonesia is passports etc.

SGPDiver

I thought as much. I have now found the SGP Power Boat Assoc and so can hopefully get some advice there. I do forget that it is very simple to travel by road over to Malaysia or perhaps the ferries - all part of the exploration.
Once again thanks.

Englishmum

Actually Ex Reg is incorrect as there is an MRT station within walking distance of the Pandan Valley condo; we are renting an apartment at Montview condo where Pandan Valley (also the name of a road as well as a condo) meets Mt. Sinai Drive.....there is a canal with walking paths which take you directly to the new Dover MRT station. It's very popular for runners, people taking babies and dogs for walks, cyclists, roller skaters etc.

It takes me 11 mins to get to Dover MRT (I take the path to the canal at the side of the Fontana Heights condo) but the walk is shaded and I've often seen kingfishers, herons and water monitor lizards. It is part of the Park Connector pathway system.

You can also (if inclined) take the 92 bus which goes to the Buena Vista MRT station, or as Ex Reg stated, Holland Road is adjacent with many bus routes (eg. directly to Orchard Road/Botanic gardens & embassies, buses to Holland Village, Cold Storage Jelita supermarket, Vivo City, MacRitchie Reservoir park etc).

I find the location to be very convenient indeed....we hardly ever use the car tbh. My spouse is thinking of giving it up when the lease expires...paying S$24k per year for a Nissan Murano. He runs to and from the office but is constantly away on business trips, and I'm spending approx half of the year in New Jersey....

The best advice I can give you is to find somewhere to live which is very near to public transport....taxis are very difficult/almost impossible to find or book when it is raining (many taxi drivers actually take them off the road for a while, they don't want to be involved in an accident...it's true). The East Coast is badly served by MRT...basically travel is mainly by bus or car only for most of the East Coast condos and in any case, most of the MRT stations throughout Singapore suburbs are located in the HDB estates (Housing Development Board flats) where the majority of the locals live and where expats rarely do. I'm very lucky in being able to walk to Dover MRT and that is because it serves the polytechnic on the other side of the track.

ex reg

Of course English mum is absolutely correct about Dover Rd MRT.
I use Clementi MRT or did which is the next station along and forgot Dover Rd serves the Pandan Valley crowd as well as the Poly
I would say though that if there is rain here then the walk might get you wet, (citation needed) umbrella or not.

Don't quite agree on the taxi availability but as I said in my first post feelings will be different depending on personal experiences. I doubt that taxi availability will be the deciding factor on where you live.

I've back pedalled as much as I can now.

Inselaffen

East Coast may not be on the MRT but there are plenty of buses. I would far prefer to take the bus and get a seat rather than be crammed in on the MRT during rush hour. Having the MRT close by is really overrated

We have lived in Marine Parade Area for over a year and the road noise from teh ECP never bothers us.

Englishmum

I disagree! The MRT is *much* faster than going by bus, especially during the rush hours...traffic can be very congested indeed.

OTOH it's even better to have the choice of the MRT and a number of bus routes!

Pretty much everywhere in Singapore is noisy though (after all it is a city) either through traffic, the constant construction or people 'upgrading' their apartments, even new ones (the sound of grinding of marble floors is very unpleasant!). Most properties have dreadful sound insulation.

The quietest places are on the lovely old colonial Black & White estates (eg. Adam Park, parts of Alexandra Park away from the ECP, Ridley Park etc.) but these are expensive and highly-sought after....and they do tend to have snakes in the gardens....

SGPDiver

Hi to all and the courtesy of a quick update

Very impressed with the condo facilities and narrowing it down to Astor Green, Carabelle, Pandan, Signature Park and Springdale I think! Now trying for agent contact. If anyone holds any major positives or negatives on the above selection, be delighted for your insight?

I personally love the shophouse ideal (reminds me of New Orleans) but don't think "with pool" exists and the condo facilities have sold themselves to both of us.

Given up on cars, MRT, buses and taxis it will be. However whilst selling my Jeep back here, managed to find an exporter who spends his life selling new Mercedes E classes to your garages over there - small world, but decidely envious over my move The only downside in his view being the completely unchanging weather 32 deg all year consistently.

Enough for now and onward with the browsing......

SGPDiver

Thanks for the input and glad to know there will be 2 people who enjoy wrecking boats! Nearly turned turtle on a 20' breaking wave yesterday care of an offshore reef and waves unusually coming from 160 deg and now having to replace a seat back with metal frame! Sea conditions calm - takes some to find these rogue areas in thick fog! Can't help love the excitement though...