wilsman77

Fred, you should set up a Motor Trade page. We could talk cars all day long and not worry about going off subject.

Fredbargate

I have now got the price up to £38,556

Build your dream SEAT

EsuriJohn

Can I dip in now and again?

wilsman77

"Dream" SEAT now thats a bit strong........

InVinoVeritas

Oh yes, I didn't look at the boy-racer version

Fredbargate

Freds are young at heart

Fred James

It gets round the Nurnburgring in less than 8 minutes.

Quite a few 100k cars cannot do that, and to make it even more interesting, that model is the estate car!

Fred James

Well, why don't you create a "petrolheads" thread in Siesta Time and we can all join in!

Dick Dasterdly

http://www.ft.com/fastft/398261/volk...drop-below-100

I didn't realise they'd taken such a big hit, down 40% !

I would tend to agree the will probably continue to go back up from that figure, but when and if they will get ever back to where they were is another question entirely, with quite a lot of negative publicity from ongoing lawsuits which could continue for years as well as loss of confidence and trust.

Much was said about the likelihood of other manufactures pulling the same stunt, but up to now there is no sign of that being the case and if the other big boys start to sue for the share of the market they are estimated to have been cheated out of, then the sky is the limit as regards payouts and compensation.

Fred James

You say that, but a UK university tested a whole range of cars for NOx emissions, based on real world conditions actually on the road this summer and they all failed to meet the standards required, in some cases by a factor of more than 10.

Interestingly, the rogue EA189 VW engine was the least bad result.

InVinoVeritas

Have they put those results on the web, Fred?

Dick Dasterdly

No doubt they all stretch the truth just as they always have done regarding issues such as miles to the gallon which could only be achieved under perfect and favourable test conditions, but what VW have done clearly amounts to intentional, deliberate fraud which is an entirely different and more serious kettle of fish altogether and is therefore being treated as such.

Fred James

It was reported in the press.

Official tester claims four more diesel car giants break toxic emissions limit | Daily Mail Online

There have also been some tests in Germany comparing the emissions using the current test and the new tesy due to come in in a couple of years. It's still a lab test but it is more realistic than the current test.

Wide range of cars emit more pollution in realistic driving tests, data shows | Environment | The Guardian

ADAC "EcoTest": Viele Euro-6-Diesel überschreiten NOx-Grenzwerte - autobild.de

InVinoVeritas

Thanks for that, it makes very interesting reading. I wonder how the other manufacturers have been cheating the tests.

Fred James

Apart from VW, and only then in the US, there is no evidence so far that anyone has been cheating.

Those reports I posted only show, that in the first case, when you test the vehicles on the road, they fail the test, but that is only the fault of the stupid test. Interestingly, in that test, the dodgy VW engine did fairly well.

The other two links just show the problems most manufacturers will face when the new (laboratory) test comes into effect in 2017.

None of them address the real issue, which is can any manufacturer meet the stringent US EPA tests - clearly VW cannot, (at least with the old engine). Since, in the US, they do not seem to have independently tested the Euro6 engines, we are none the wiser. Bearing in mind that the ADAC test shows that most current Euro6 cars cannot pass the new EU test, it would seem unlikely that any of them would pass the US test (which is 30mg as opposed to 80mg in the EU test).