John P

See this

From: Neo ([email protected]) Subject: Ahmad's posting Newsgroups:
misc.immigration.canada View: Complete Thread (9 articles) | Original Format Date:
2001-09-13 18:23:40 PST

Here's a posting I was requested to put up by a guy from the UAE, his name is Ahmad.
He e-mailed this to me after I made my post. This is depressing so if you're touchy
stop right here...........

I fully agree with you on the above topic you have circulated, try circulating this
message too, I was in British Columbia for the past two months, trying to taste the
so called "Call of Canada" most by our Asian immigrant consultants who keep
blabbering about the goodness of Canada to live in and that the UN voting that the
country is the best and safest place to live in. I think these are a load of bull
shit as these culprits are trying to make quick money out of the "canada craved
people". Since I experienced the life for more than two months. Your negative points
are all accepted, but your positive points I did not come accross any white skin in
BC since the place is invaded by our asian counterpart chinese. The only white skins
I saw was a whole heap of drug abusers and alcaholichs who were atretched down along
the streets. People are eating and rummaging in the trash cans. It even does not
happen in most of the third world countries. People are without jobs, Jobs are very
very hard to come by. The medical facilities may be free or what ever, but during the
strike period which took place last month, the medical staff walked out exactly at
the time they were to do so whilst patients were half opened on the operating tables.
No emergency was working in any of the hostpitals, people were sitting there for days
to get treatment, the transport strike had just ended the five month long battle when
in the evening the medical staff walked out. About the schools, yes it seems very
lucrative since you know that the education is free, but I spoke personally to a
govt. teacher and she was almost in tears when she narrated the plight of the
students. Only 20% study in the govt schools and rest 80% are rebels and thugs who
walks into schools and lure innocent children away and they sell alcahol and drugs in
every high school. I just turned my back when I heard this and saw what was happening
in the schools and took the next flight home. We are all trying to give a good life
to our children by sacrificing everything we have including our hard earned saving,
but once the children are no more our children we are unable to face the rest of our
lives. The suicide rate is very high in schools. What is the point in going to a
unrealistic "greener pasture" when life turns upside down. almost 90% of the people I
have encountered else where other than Canada, as well as the media which shoots out
about how best this place called Canada is, in my opinion all these people are like
the people in the fairy tale "Emperors New clothes", every one of them were blind and
afraid of saying that the emperor is naked except for a little boy who voiced his
opinion that the emperor was actually naked. This is what is happening in the light
of highlighting Canada living. Everything is so bleak there, there is no future
prospects of what so ever, people are afraid of loosing their jobs and they have had
lost their jobs more freaquently than in our own countries. I wish you could voice
more of your opinion about this god forsaken place for which people are running with
their little savings busting the whole thing in that country and eating out of trash
cans. Most of the shopping malls and supermarkets are selling expired food items when
questioned the reply was "You dont have to by them". This is the attitude and
response that I personnaly encountered. Refugees are the people who are well off
there, your are very right. But the so called refugess are not really refugees they
are all a bunch of ecconomy immigrants who has an optimistic view about living in
canada, they are spending more money than us to settle down the quickest way. In BC
everything is taxable and with an additional tax of 14%. One cabbie I encoutered was
returning to his home town after 32 years of slaving as a cabbie who actually was a
veterinery doctor, He has been waiting to get a break through for 32 years in BC for
his actual career but none came his way. The whole system in canada is "be the
canadian way". No matter whether you are a doctor, engineer, lawyer, nurse, financier
etc you have to get the canadian education and then beg for a job and even then you
cannot get about your true career, by that time you have lost valuable time money and
energy and you are at the verge of breaking down with all your frustrations and
dissappointments.The only other way is to go in for menial jobs which are also not
easy to come by. The whole system is very well sewn so that the expats immigrants
does not get a chance in being successful in that country, My advise to people who
wants to go to canada is also a big "NO". stay put where ever you are, you will be
better of with the energy you are going to loose along with your hard money, if you
could do that where ever you are right now you will find better results than in the
country of Canada.

All the very best for the people who still wants to go to Canada, let God go
with them.

Sks

There is a lot of truth in what Mr. Ahmad has said.

"John p" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > See this
    >
    > From: Neo ([email protected]) Subject: Ahmad's posting Newsgroups:
    > misc.immigration.canada View: Complete Thread (9 articles) | Original Format Date:
    > 2001-09-13 18:23:40 PST
    >
    >
    > Here's a posting I was requested to put up by a guy from the UAE, his name is
    > Ahmad. He e-mailed this to me after I made my post. This is depressing so if you're
    > touchy stop right here...........
    >
    >
    > I fully agree with you on the above topic you have circulated, try circulating this
    > message too, I was in British Columbia for the past two months, trying to taste the
    > so called "Call of Canada" most by our Asian immigrant consultants who keep
    > blabbering about the goodness of Canada to live in and that the UN voting that the
    > country is the best and safest place to live in. I think these are a load of bull
    > shit as these culprits are trying to make quick money out of the "canada craved
    > people". Since I experienced the life for more than two months. Your negative
    > points are all accepted, but your positive points I did not come accross any white
    > skin in BC since the place is invaded by our asian counterpart chinese. The only
    > white skins I saw was a whole heap of drug abusers and alcaholichs who were
    > atretched down along the streets. People are eating and rummaging in the trash
    > cans. It even does not happen in most of the third world countries. People are
    > without jobs, Jobs are very very hard to come by. The medical facilities may be
    > free or what ever, but during the strike period which took place last month, the
    > medical staff walked out exactly at the time they were to do so whilst patients
    > were half opened on the operating tables. No emergency was working in any of the
    > hostpitals, people were sitting there for days to get treatment, the transport
    > strike had just ended the five month long battle when in the evening the medical
    > staff walked out. About the schools, yes it seems very lucrative since you know
    > that the education is free, but I spoke personally to a govt. teacher and she was
    > almost in tears when she narrated the plight of the students. Only 20% study in the
    > govt schools and rest 80% are rebels and thugs who walks into schools and lure
    > innocent children away and they sell alcahol and drugs in every high school. I just
    > turned my back when I heard this and saw what was happening in the schools and took
    > the next flight home. We are all trying to give a good life to our children by
    > sacrificing everything we have including our hard earned saving, but once the
    > children are no more our children we are unable to face the rest of our lives. The
    > suicide rate is very high in schools. What is the point in going to a unrealistic
    > "greener pasture" when life turns upside down. almost 90% of the people I have
    > encountered else where other than Canada, as well as the media which shoots out
    > about how best this place called Canada is, in my opinion all these people are like
    > the people in the fairy tale "Emperors New clothes", every one of them were blind
    > and afraid of saying that the emperor is naked except for a little boy who voiced
    > his opinion that the emperor was actually naked. This is what is happening in the
    > light of highlighting Canada living. Everything is so bleak there, there is no
    > future prospects of what so ever, people are afraid of loosing their jobs and they
    > have had lost their jobs more freaquently than in our own countries. I wish you
    > could voice more of your opinion about this god forsaken place for which people are
    > running with their little savings busting the whole thing in that country and
    > eating out of trash cans. Most of the shopping malls and supermarkets are selling
    > expired food items when questioned the reply was "You dont have to by them". This
    > is the attitude and response that I personnaly encountered. Refugees are the people
    > who are well off there, your are very right. But the so called refugess are not
    > really refugees they are all a bunch of ecconomy immigrants who has an optimistic
    > view about living in canada, they are spending more money than us to settle down
    > the quickest way. In BC everything is taxable and with an additional tax of 14%.
    > One cabbie I encoutered was returning to his home town after 32 years of slaving as
    > a cabbie who actually was a veterinery doctor, He has been waiting to get a break
    > through for 32 years in BC for his actual career but none came his way. The whole
    > system in canada is "be the canadian way". No matter whether you are a doctor,
    > engineer, lawyer, nurse, financier etc you have to get the canadian education and
    > then beg for a job and even then you cannot get about your true career, by that
    > time you have lost valuable time money and energy and you are at the verge of
    > breaking down with all your frustrations and dissappointments.The only other way is
    > to go in for menial jobs which are also not easy to come by. The whole system is
    > very well sewn so that the expats immigrants does not get a chance in being
    > successful in that country, My advise to people who wants to go to canada is also a
    > big "NO". stay put where ever you are, you will be better of with the energy you
    > are going to loose along with your hard money, if you could do that where ever you
    > are right now you will find better results than in the country of Canada.
    >
    > All the very best for the people who still wants to go to Canada, let God go
    > with them.

Meg Lamont

Canada is not for everyone. That's for sure. To immigrate to a country is a very
serious decision and people ought to do research before immigrating. I'm amazed at
the amount of people who come here and seems that it's a decision that is taking
very lightly and then when they arrive here, they are very disillusioned. People
have to use common sense when making the decision to immigrate.Most larger cities
have their share of problems. I don't know where this person was, but take any
larger city in the US and the problems are much worse for the most part. A town
nearby has significant drug problem, another town nearby was within the last few
years had a child prostitution ring broken up. It's all relative. When you try to
tell people of the economy here, everyone wants to shut their ears. Sometimes the
truth is tuff to hear.

But reality is that it's hard at the moment, even for Canadians to find work. Most
Canadian companies don't want to hire immigrants that struggle with the English
language. Since I have moved here, I only know 2 Canadian that income is over 60,000
dollars. Most the people in the area that I live in have multiple jobs and they make
about 7 dollars an hour and they work 3 jobs and not to mention the odd jobs they are
paid cash for. Since I've been here since November 2000, I have met alot of people
living on the Welfare system. Most of them are perfect able bodies, but they just
don't care to work. I can't say that I new a single person when I lived in the states
that was on welfare. I also know a Canadian who has been searching for a job since
last October when her company laid her off in the IT sales business, she also can't
find employment. Her unemployment ran out some months ago, and she is trying to make
it by starting up her own business. It really comes down to it that it's not always a
bed a roses.

People should be more realistic about it and open their eyes and do research. The
people that end up here because they can't get their Green Cards in the States are
probably the most unhappy since it's not much like living in the States. It can be
more difficult here, and people usually have to do with less, but then again, the
people are happy to do so. Since I have been here, to me, Canada is not as
materialistic as the US. The people I have met, live much simpler lives and are back
to the basics. They just learn to make do with what they have and are happy.

Homework should be done before the immigration papers are even started. You might be
surprised to find out how something's are and maybe not even start the journey.
Immigration can be different for everyone. When they first changed the rules and
upped the qualifying cutoff, there was a terrible outcry of why was it so difficult
to get into Canada....... Nobody really wanted to hear reality.. they just wanted the
points to be less so they could get here.

People really just need to really think about immigrating from their home country to
any other country, Canada included.

Best of luck,

Meg

"SKS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... There is a lot of truth in what
Mr. Ahmad has said.

"John p" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > See this
    >
    > From: Neo ([email protected]) Subject: Ahmad's posting Newsgroups:
    > misc.immigration.canada View: Complete Thread (9 articles) | Original Format Date:
    > 2001-09-13 18:23:40 PST
    >
    >
    > Here's a posting I was requested to put up by a guy from the UAE, his name is
    > Ahmad. He e-mailed this to me after I made my post. This is depressing so if you're
    > touchy stop right here...........
    >
    >
    > I fully agree with you on the above topic you have circulated, try circulating this
    > message too, I was in British Columbia for the past two months, trying to taste the
    > so called "Call of Canada" most by our Asian immigrant consultants who keep
    > blabbering about the goodness of Canada to live in and that the UN voting that the
    > country is the best and safest place to live in. I think these are a load of bull
    > shit as these culprits are trying to make quick money out of the "canada craved
    > people". Since I experienced the life for more than two months. Your negative
    > points are all accepted, but your positive points I did not come accross any white
    > skin in BC since the place is invaded by our asian counterpart chinese. The only
    > white skins I saw was a whole heap of drug abusers and alcaholichs who were
    > atretched down along the streets. People are eating and rummaging in the trash
    > cans. It even does not happen in most of the third world countries. People are
    > without jobs, Jobs are very very hard to come by. The medical facilities may be
    > free or what ever, but during the strike period which took place last month, the
    > medical staff walked out exactly at the time they were to do so whilst patients
    > were half opened on the operating tables. No emergency was working in any of the
    > hostpitals, people were sitting there for days to get treatment, the transport
    > strike had just ended the five month long battle when in the evening the medical
    > staff walked out. About the schools, yes it seems very lucrative since you know
    > that the education is free, but I spoke personally to a govt. teacher and she was
    > almost in tears when she narrated the plight of the students. Only 20% study in the
    > govt schools and rest 80% are rebels and thugs who walks into schools and lure
    > innocent children away and they sell alcahol and drugs in every high school. I just
    > turned my back when I heard this and saw what was happening in the schools and took
    > the next flight home. We are all trying to give a good life to our children by
    > sacrificing everything we have including our hard earned saving, but once the
    > children are no more our children we are unable to face the rest of our lives. The
    > suicide rate is very high in schools. What is the point in going to a unrealistic
    > "greener pasture" when life turns upside down. almost 90% of the people I have
    > encountered else where other than Canada, as well as the media which shoots out
    > about how best this place called Canada is, in my opinion all these people are like
    > the people in the fairy tale "Emperors New clothes", every one of them were blind
    > and afraid of saying that the emperor is naked except for a little boy who voiced
    > his opinion that the emperor was actually naked. This is what is happening in the
    > light of highlighting Canada living. Everything is so bleak there, there is no
    > future prospects of what so ever, people are afraid of loosing their jobs and they
    > have had lost their jobs more freaquently than in our own countries. I wish you
    > could voice more of your opinion about this god forsaken place for which people are
    > running with their little savings busting the whole thing in that country and
    > eating out of trash cans. Most of the shopping malls and supermarkets are selling
    > expired food items when questioned the reply was "You dont have to by them". This
    > is the attitude and response that I personnaly encountered. Refugees are the people
    > who are well off there, your are very right. But the so called refugess are not
    > really refugees they are all a bunch of ecconomy immigrants who has an optimistic
    > view about living in canada, they are spending more money than us to settle down
    > the quickest way. In BC everything is taxable and with an additional tax of 14%.
    > One cabbie I encoutered was returning to his home town after 32 years of slaving as
    > a cabbie who actually was a veterinery doctor, He has been waiting to get a break
    > through for 32 years in BC for his actual career but none came his way. The whole
    > system in canada is "be the canadian way". No matter whether you are a doctor,
    > engineer, lawyer, nurse, financier etc you have to get the canadian education and
    > then beg for a job and even then you cannot get about your true career, by that
    > time you have lost valuable time money and energy and you are at the verge of
    > breaking down with all your frustrations and dissappointments.The only other way is
    > to go in for menial jobs which are also not easy to come by. The whole system is
    > very well sewn so that the expats immigrants does not get a chance in being
    > successful in that country, My advise to people who wants to go to canada is also a
    > big "NO". stay put where ever you are, you will be better of with the energy you
    > are going to loose along with your hard money, if you could do that where ever you
    > are right now you will find better results than in the country of Canada.
    >
    > All the very best for the people who still wants to go to Canada, let God go
    > with them.

The Wizzard

I think there is a great deal of people who do not really realise what moving to a
new country entails. However i do think there is a difference depending where you
come from, in some cases it is a lot easier to visit Canada, the culture isn't as far
removed and i think a lot or people from say the USA or western europe and the UK
maybe go there on holiday and they like it so much they decide to move, especially
from the UK it has a certain charm with it's english heritage yet its new world
interpretation. However i think it's different for those people who maybe are looking
more for a way out of where they are and have never been there but are told by people
that it is the place to go, there is always that idea with people that there is a
better place, the grass is greener etc and if those people have never travelled
there, possibly they can't afford to, then they don't really understand where it is
they are going, it's like trying to get an idea of a place from a travel brochure
it's always in a positive light and maybe slightly misleading. Canada didn't get the
standard of living it enjoys and it's good reputations by accident though, it has
worked and earned them. It may not have an economy quite as large or string as the
USA or UK but it has considerably less people, and some would argue that not having
the kind of overtly commercial and sprawling economy of the US is one of it's
attractions. There may be many more people on welfare than the Us but then again
Canada has a better welfare system for peopel to abuse, and no matter where you go
people do. If you come here to the UK with it's pretty comprehensive welfar system
you can visit almost small cities within cities of council estates and tower blocks
of people on welfare and free housing and so forth and they have higher crime rates
and drug abuse etc and yes there are many of them with no intentions of ever working
cos they don't have to. However if there was no economy in Canada, no jobs and nobody
working anywhere then it wouldn't be recovering from the global downturn with more
strength than the USA, which it is. A picture of alcoholic tramps living in garbage
cans and drug dealers infesting schools etc is not a true and all encompasing
picture. If you go downtown in any big cities then sure you will find homless people
and alcoholics and drug dealers, that is true of everywhere, but it's not true of all
of Canada. If you examine even Canada's largest and most metropolitan city, Toronto,
and compare it's crime rates and murder rates etc with somewhere in the US like LA or
NYC or other large cities they don't even compare, same with London in the UK with
surging levels of street crime etc. If, as the poster stated, in their home country
they could easily get high paying jobs, their streets were neat and tidy with no
homless people or alcoholics or drug addicts, where all the kids go to school and
there is high levels of education and employment, why the hell are you leaving, that
sounds even better than Canada is described in the best guides and UN surveys. There
is no place on earth that is a utopia of high paying jobs for all where anyone from
anywher ein the world can move there and within a few months be living a dream life
with loads of money and big houses and cars. it doesnt work like that anywhere. In
peoples home countries i have no doubt they have to work for jobs, but it seems
easier because you have been doing it there all your life, you have been learnign in
their schools and growing up in their society and they know what you have done to get
where you are. in any new place they will expect you to work to gain their trust and
respect and convince them you can do what you say you can, to work your way up
through their system like everyone else in the country, having a PR visa doesnt make
you special, it puts you at a disadvantage to the native because you are new and
different and unproven in their country and society, and they expec tyou to work to
show you can do it, and if you do you will have no problems. I think the best thing
they could have done in the new law was put some sort of thing in saying that peopel
should have at least visited Canada once before moving, but then they arent being
that restrictive, they are saying if you meet the cconditions you can come have a go,
we have good free at point of service health care a great human rights record, a
stable society and a beautiful country and you can come and try. If you dont like it
you dont have to stay but we dont promise you anything more than the oppertunity.

Drew

Stuart Brook

It's important to remember too that Vancouver is not Canada, but part of Canada,
and sadly it attracts a lot of the people "looking to make it" from all across the
western provinces. You can see a lot of success and a lot of failure in a city
like that.

Stuart

John P

Thanks Meg for ur open and frank answer. What do u think Mr Miller and Mr Cohen. Is
this a realistic picture. Greg how about u ? U just moved there... what do u feel ? U
always give a real frank view .

Thanks John

Kumar

Mate,

    > Canada is not for everyone. That's for sure. To immigrate to a country is a very
    > serious decision and people ought to do research before immigrating.
Yes, we know it is a serious issue. But, in my opinion, a potential immigrant to
Canada has very little resources that really hightlight the problems in Canada. When
you ask the Canadian consulate, all they say is search the net and look at the
government site. The government site makes Canada look nice and rosy. This is what
happened to me before I came. This is what will continue to happen to everybody else.

    > I'm amazed at the amount of people who come here and seems that it's a decision
    > that is taking very lightly and then when they arrive here, they are very
    > disillusioned. People have to use common sense when making the decision to
    > immigrate.
What sort of common sense should a 3rd world immigrant apply?? He is coming from a
cess-pit like India/Sri Lanka to a developed country.

    >Most larger cities have their share of problems. I don't know where this person was,
    >but take any larger city in the US and the problems are much worse for the most
    >part. A town nearby has significant drug problem, another town nearby was within the
    >last few years had a child prostitution ring broken up. It's all relative. When you
    >try to tell people of the economy here, everyone wants to shut their ears. Sometimes
    >the truth is tuff to hear.
It is true that Canada always wants to ape the US in whatever they do. The only
advantage Canada has is that the crime rate is very low. But that is because of the
high taxes sourcing the welfare system to keep criminals off the streets.

    > But reality is that it's hard at the moment, even for Canadians to find work. Most
    > Canadian companies don't want to hire immigrants that struggle with the English
    > language. Since I have moved here, I only know 2 Canadian that income is over
    > 60,000 dollars. Most the people in the area that I live in have multiple jobs and
    > they make about 7 dollars an hour and they work 3 jobs and not to mention the odd
    > jobs they are paid cash for.
The government of Canada should do more to highlight these problems. Some days ago
the Metro Daily published a front-page article saying Canada does not have enough
Family doctors. This is f***ing bullshit because I know 100s of experienced &
qualified immigrant doctors dishwashing and cooking in Canada.

    > Since I've been here since November 2000, I have met alot of people living on the
    > Welfare system. Most of them are perfect able bodies, but they just don't care to
    > work. I can't say that I new a single person when I lived in the states that was on
    > welfare. I also know a Canadian who has been searching for a job
Yep, atleast I am not of welfare. I am doing menial jobs but at least I am paying
canadian Taxes!!!! The biggest culprits are bogus refugees who live on taxes, then
do cash jobs to buy cars, steroes, etc. when the average skilled immigrant slaves it
off in a sweat shop. (I am not saying that skilled immigrants should be put on
welfare, but when their savings dry up+ no job + no Canadian experience = requires
government support).

    > to do with less, but then again, the people are happy to do so. Since I have been
    > here, to me, Canada is not as materialistic as the US. The people I have met, live
    > much simpler lives and are back to the basics. They just learn to make do with what
    > they have and are happy.
Do not compare Canada to the US. The United States of America is a GREAT country.
Canada is trying to be GREAT. That is the difference. Instead of comparing the US to
Canada and citing differences, Canadians should try to address their problems.

    > Homework should be done before the immigration papers are even started. You might
    > be surprised to find out how something's are and maybe not even start the journey.
    > Immigration can be different for everyone. When they first changed the rules and
    > upped the qualifying cutoff, there was a terrible outcry of why was it so difficult
    > to get into Canada....... Nobody really wanted to hear reality.. they just wanted
    > the points to be less so they could get here.
True, I have been trying to tell the truth to many of my friends who are going to
immigrate to Canada. They will never listen to you...!! They say 'people come in
sardine containers etc. to Canada, so if I get a chance I should come'. Well, what
they don't realize is that skilled immigrants do not come this way. And anybody who
comes in Sardine containers are not the cream of the society in their country and
live on welfare in Canada.

    > Best of luck,
All immigrants need luck. Canadians have a nice, sweet, friendly image outside
Canada. In reality, when you compete with them for GOOD jobs, then their dark side
comes to light. Don't take my word for it, there are many to attest to this.

What really suprises me is that there are citizens of US, UK, and good European
countries who want to immigrate to Canada. !!!! In Gods name, I cannot understand
why?? Does few jobs, low pay, high taxes, too many immigrants, and hell like winter
seem attractive to these people!!???!!

Andrew Miller

Everyone's opinion is always a very subjective one, but Meg posted the least
subjective picture to date on the subject. There will always be unhappy ones who
can't make it for one or other reason but they are in the minority (although the
loudest one) - majority of immigrants make it sooner or later.

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"John p" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks Meg for ur open and frank answer. What do u think Mr Miller and Mr Cohen. Is
    > this a realistic picture. Greg how about u ? U just moved there... what do u feel ?
    > U always give a real frank view .
    >
    > Thanks John

The Wizzard

yeah that is true. birght lights always seem to attract people. Where in live at the
moment in Blackpoon england is a huge tourist town and it attracts a lot of people
looking for work in the summer when it's all arcades and shows and theme parks etc
but then when it winds down for the winter the jobs vanish and there are lots of
people with no place to go etc. I guess thats why kids who run away from home always
end up heading for the big city and then the streets. I know people moving to Calgary
and places who say there are lots of oppertunities there in the growing cities and
towns that are catching up but it seems everyone automaticaly heads for Toronto of
Vancouver.

"Stuart Brook" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > It's important to remember too that Vancouver is not Canada, but part of Canada,
    > and sadly it attracts a lot of the people "looking to make it" from all across the
    > western provinces. You can see a lot of success and a lot of failure in a city
    > like that.
    >
    > Stuart

Meg Lamont

It was interesting when I was immigrating here. I had my medical done in Ottawa since
they wanted 3 times as much in St. Louis, MO. The doctor I had was an immigrant from
Spain. He had been here several years and I had asked him how was the racism, and he
was quite blunt and told me the truth, that it existed and was well alive in Canada.
He had also lived in the states for a while and then back to Canada when he realized
the states was not promise land of milk and honey.

I'm not sure you can get the true picture of Canada by asking any Canadian Consulate.
Sure, the government will always paint the best picture of a country.... not reality
for the most part. I believe the research has to be done by that person and I did not
say it would be easy, but it needs to be done. One of the best ways to learn about
Canada is to talk to the people that live here.. the real people. If interested in
the bigger cities, talk to people frankly about the situation. It might not be what
you want to hear, but it would help you out in the long run.

I don't know why everyone heads for Vancouver and Toronto Canada is a huge country
with only as many people that live in the entire state of California! . I grew up
outside of Chicago, and if I was moving to a new country, would not pick one of the
largest, or largest city in that country. If you are thinking there is no
crime/drugs, etc in them, you would be wearing rose colored glasses. Those problems
can be anywhere. Compared to the US, Canada is much cleaner by far. I can remember
when my husband visited Rockford with me, and he saw bars on the windows of this one
part of town, the ghetto, he had never seen places like that in Canada, only in the
movies. True, you won't find many ghettos in Canada, but there are still run down
shady sections... all cities have them.

It's funny when everyone talks about the higher taxes in Canada. I think if you
level everything out in the US, it's fairly close. The good think about Canada is
that everyone has healthcare. Poor or not. In the states, if you can't afford or
don't have healthcare, it's a financial nightmare. Even when it's tied to your
employer, that's a tuff thing when you are layed off, and have a medical condition
that you can't get covered since it was pre exisiting. I'm not saying the system in
Canada is perfect, but it's a means of healthcare for everyone. I'm not sure how
many countries have socialized medicine, but it's actually pretty comforting in the
economy where people can be layed off at any moment, and at least, they won't have
to worry about purchasing VERY expensive healthcare, or having no healthcare for
thier families. Yes, taxes are part of the package if you decide to move to Canada.
with only about 30 million people to support the country, it needs to come from
somewhere.. the people.

Speaking of welfare, the people that I know that are on welfare are born Canadian
citizens. I've not run across any immigrants that are on welfare, just born Canadian
citizens. Yes, there will be abusers of all welfare systems. The ones that I know
have satellite TV and also eat rather well. Very able to work, they just don't want
to work. At least in Ontario, they are making you work for your welfare and that
seems to be getting some of them out and doing something other than just laying
around watching TV all day. It still amazes me how many are on welfare and abusing
it.It really makes the other Canadian citizens that are working very disgruntled that
these persons are abusing the system and are living better than they are.

I have not had much experience with the medical services here except what I've heard
on the news. I don't know why immigrants that are doctors would have a problem
finding employment. Maybe they don't fit the profile or certification that is
required for the jobs they are seeking.

One can't believe all that they see, they must experience it for themselves. It
something looks too good to be true, it's probably not true. Yes, there are nice
Canadians and they are Canadians that are not so nice. People are people. Canada has
people living here. Sure, not everyone is open to immigrants who want to take thier
jobs, that's natural. Hence the need for immigration. Put yourself in their shoes,
look at immigration in your own country and see how you view immigrants... People
often forget about how protective one gets when they are threaten, Canadians are just
people too.

Immigrating to Canada is not just about money, taxes and winter. There are many other
advantages of Canada that people don't even notice. Maybe if one learns about the
country, they will enjoy it more.

Meg

"kumar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... Mate,

    > Canada is not for everyone. That's for sure. To immigrate to a country is
a
    > very serious decision and people ought to do research before immigrating.
Yes, we know it is a serious issue. But, in my opinion, a potential immigrant to
Canada has very little resources that really hightlight the problems in Canada. When
you ask the Canadian consulate, all they say is search the net and look at the
government site. The government site makes Canada look nice and rosy. This is what
happened to me before I came. This is what will continue to happen to everybody else.

    > I'm amazed at the amount of people who come here and seems that it's a decision
    > that is taking very lightly and then when they arrive here, they are very
    > disillusioned. People have to use common sense when making the decision to
    > immigrate.
What sort of common sense should a 3rd world immigrant apply?? He is coming from a
cess-pit like India/Sri Lanka to a developed country.

    >Most larger cities have their share of problems. I don't know where this person was,
    >but take any larger city in the US and
the
    > problems are much worse for the most part. A town nearby has significant drug
    > problem, another town nearby was within the last few years had a
child
    > prostitution ring broken up. It's all relative. When you try to tell
people
    > of the economy here, everyone wants to shut their ears. Sometimes the
truth
    > is tuff to hear.
It is true that Canada always wants to ape the US in whatever they do. The only
advantage Canada has is that the crime rate is very low. But that is because of the
high taxes sourcing the welfare system to keep criminals off the streets.

    > But reality is that it's hard at the moment, even for Canadians to find work. Most
    > Canadian companies don't want to hire immigrants that struggle with the English
    > language. Since I have moved here, I only know 2 Canadian that income is over
    > 60,000 dollars. Most the people in the area that I
live
    > in have multiple jobs and they make about 7 dollars an hour and they work
3
    > jobs and not to mention the odd jobs they are paid cash for.
The government of Canada should do more to highlight these problems. Some days ago
the Metro Daily published a front-page article saying Canada does not have enough
Family doctors. This is f***ing bullshit because I know 100s of experienced &
qualified immigrant doctors dishwashing and cooking in Canada.

    > Since I've been here since November 2000, I have met alot of people living on the
    > Welfare system. Most of them are perfect able bodies, but they just don't care to
    > work. I can't say that I new a single person when I lived in the states
that
    > was on welfare. I also know a Canadian who has been searching for a job
Yep, atleast I am not of welfare. I am doing menial jobs but at least I am paying
canadian Taxes!!!! The biggest culprits are bogus refugees who live on taxes, then
do cash jobs to buy cars, steroes, etc. when the average skilled immigrant slaves it
off in a sweat shop. (I am not saying that skilled immigrants should be put on
welfare, but when their savings dry up+ no job + no Canadian experience = requires
government support).

    > to do with less, but then again, the people are happy to do so. Since I
have
    > been here, to me, Canada is not as materialistic as the US. The people I have met,
    > live much simpler lives and are back to the basics. They just learn to make do with
    > what they have and are happy.
Do not compare Canada to the US. The United States of America is a GREAT country.
Canada is trying to be GREAT. That is the difference. Instead of comparing the US to
Canada and citing differences, Canadians should try to address their problems.

    > Homework should be done before the immigration papers are even started.
You
    > might be surprised to find out how something's are and maybe not even
start
    > the journey. Immigration can be different for everyone. When they first changed the
    > rules and upped the qualifying cutoff, there was a terrible outcry of why was it so
    > difficult to get into Canada....... Nobody really wanted to hear reality.. they
    > just wanted the points to be less so they could get here.
True, I have been trying to tell the truth to many of my friends who are going to
immigrate to Canada. They will never listen to you...!! They say 'people come in
sardine containers etc. to Canada, so if I get a chance I should come'. Well, what
they don't realize is that skilled immigrants do not come this way. And anybody who
comes in Sardine containers are not the cream of the society in their country and
live on welfare in Canada.

    > Best of luck,
All immigrants need luck. Canadians have a nice, sweet, friendly image outside
Canada. In reality, when you compete with them for GOOD jobs, then their dark side
comes to light. Don't take my word for it, there are many to attest to this.

What really suprises me is that there are citizens of US, UK, and good European
countries who want to immigrate to Canada. !!!! In Gods name, I cannot understand
why?? Does few jobs, low pay, high taxes, too many immigrants, and hell like winter
seem attractive to these people!!???!!

Anrkist

    > ... The medical facilities may be free or what ever, but during the strike period
    > which took place last month, the medical staff walked out exactly at the time they
    > were to do so whilst patients were half opened on the operating tables. ...

Give yer head a shake! Do you really believe this?

cml

On 15 Jun 2002 09:59:13 -0700, kumar <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >What really suprises me is that there are citizens of US, UK, and good European
    >countries who want to immigrate to Canada. !!!! In Gods name, I cannot understand
    >why?? Does few jobs, low pay, high taxes, too many immigrants, and hell like winter
    >seem attractive to these people!!???!!

Just imagine for a moment you sit in a canoe on a nice lake relaxing. Then you will
understand why people come over here. I guess I dun need to earn $100,000 a year to
do just THAT! It all comes down to your mentality.

If you need to have a big house and a fancy car and if those things mean a lot in
your life then you have another kind of mentality to start with. High taxes only
apply to people who earn big money. Most people who make under $25,000 a year dun pay
a huge percentage of their income to tax and they have enough to go on by if they
save. Personality, again, determines how much milage you are going to go.

I am making peanuts in a lowpaid job. But I make enough savings in a year that I can
goof off a whole year doing things I like to do. I can hike in the mountains, go
fishing, travel on the cheap. Do those things fire up your fancy? Obviously not. But
to me these things are things that account much in my life. And that defines my life.
Honestly, if I make 4 or 5 times of what I am earning right now, it's not going to
change my attitudes. So explain to me why I need to stress my bulbs out to make that
4 to 5 times salaries? To pay more tax? To struggle in a cutthroat environment? No I
don't expect everyone to live like me but I am sure if we are more imaginative we can
cut expenses down a lot.

Question not about the figure but why you do what you do. That will give you
direction as to where you should go.

cml

On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:53:24 -0400, Meg Lamont <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It's funny when everyone talks about the higher taxes in Canada. I think if you
    >level everything out in the US, it's fairly close. The good think about Canada is
    >that everyone has healthcare. Poor or not. In the states, if you can't afford or
    >don't have healthcare, it's a financial nightmare. Even when it's tied to your
    >employer, that's a tuff thing when you are layed off, and have a medical condition
    >that you can't get covered since it was pre exisiting. I'm not saying the system in
    >Canada is perfect, but it's a means of healthcare for everyone. I'm not sure how
    >many countries have socialized medicine, but it's actually pretty comforting in the
    >economy where people can be layed off at any moment, and at least, they won't have
    >to worry about purchasing VERY expensive healthcare, or having no healthcare for
    >thier families. Yes, taxes are part of the package if you decide to move to Canada.
    >with only about 30 million people to support the country, it needs to come from
    >somewhere.. the people.

The situation is not as rosy in Canada either. You hear about emergeny rooms got
closed down because there are not enough nurses around? Or woman died while waiting
for surgery. What they really need to fix is to find gainful employment for all the
medical doctors who have immigrated to this country. But we are too weak and too
afraid to let these folks set back the wage level of our native doctors. If manpower
is the ONLY issue, we could have solved it long ago. The real problem is that there
is politics involved. There are turfs to be protected. That is the REAL problem. If I
were the minister of health, I would find a way to re-qualify these immigrants
doctors and nurses and get them to work as soon as I can.

    >
    >Speaking of welfare, the people that I know that are on welfare are born Canadian
    >citizens. I've not run across any immigrants that are on welfare, just born Canadian
    >citizens. Yes, there will be abusers of all welfare systems. The ones that I know
    >have satellite TV and also eat rather well. Very able to work, they just don't want
    >to work. At least in Ontario, they are making you work for your welfare and that
    >seems to be getting some of them out and doing something other than just laying
    >around watching TV all day. It still amazes me how many are on welfare and abusing
    >it.It really makes the other Canadian citizens that are working very disgruntled
    >that these persons are abusing the system and are living better than they are.
    >

If I were the minister of public works, I would make welfare workers go out and sweep
our streets. Yes, give them a broom and make them work at least 4-5 hours a day. And
I would make new laws stating only people who work and service in a community have
the right to vote. People who don't do anything have no right to vote (excepting
seniors of course). Then our political parties would have no resources to buy off
votes with these do-nothings.

    >One can't believe all that they see, they must experience it for themselves. It
    >something looks too good to be true, it's probably not true. Yes, there are nice
    >Canadians and they are Canadians that are not so nice. People are people. Canada has
    >people living here. Sure, not everyone is open to immigrants who want to take thier
    >jobs, that's natural. Hence the need for immigration. Put yourself in their shoes,
    >look at immigration in your own country and see how you view immigrants... People
    >often forget about how protective one gets when they are threaten, Canadians are
    >just people too.

You know why people are protective. Most of the time it's because some of us are
incompetent. They are afraid to improve and to have a positive attitude towards work
and life. A healthy dose of competition is good for us all, not just a small groups
of individuals.

    >Immigrating to Canada is not just about money, taxes and winter. There are many
    >other advantages of Canada that people don't even notice. Maybe if one learns about
    >the country, they will enjoy it more.

Agree mostly here.

dotty

Browse most of the boards here and you will always be amazed at the amount of people who plan to immigrate without even having a visit to the new country of choice. The Australia board is a classic, people wafflling on about the dream life they envisage when they arrive in paradise. Basically a lot of what is written is the product of reading too many tourist brochures on a cold rainy night in the UK, it is often totally removed from reality. Canada is no different, people dream of this great place and totally overlook reality. Such as if you give up your family, friends, contacts, work leads of course it will be a struggle at first. You will need to rebuild your life, same as if you moved from Manchester to London, or New York to LA you would need to start again. People need to accept this before they move. Also why do so many people neglect to vist first understandable if a refugee perhaps, but surely not if a normal working adult. Take a look first, expect to go backwards , obviously most jobs will go to Canadian first, nobody owes immigrants anything, they must work their way up from scratch. Hard truth but FACT.

Greg Del Pilar

Hi Dotty!

    > obviously most jobs will go to Canadian first, nobody owes immigrants anything,
    > they must work their way up from scratch. Hard truth but FACT.
    >

When you say "Canadian first", are you referring to Canadian citizens? What kind of
citizen TEST- born Canadian or naturalized Canadian? What about the newly arrived
permanent resident TEST- are they not Canadians? You're suggesting that Canadian
employers discriminate against "non-Canadians", regardless of professional
qualifications. That's scary TEST- it means new immigrants will not ever get a good
job inspite of better qualifications and experience because they are "not Canadians".
And what about after they've become naturalized Canadian citizens TEST- do employers
start looking at them favorably? How can they do this by merely looking at their
resumes (remember, most resumes don't indicate citizenship info)?

I thought "equal opportunity employment" exist in Canada. I have always believed that
many new immigrants are not getting the job is because of the bad job market. I sure
hope that it's not because they are "not" Canadians. I hope what you're saying here
is just an opinion and not a FACT.

Greg