No

http://www.dailybread.ca/research/pdf/Who2.pdf Look at section 12.

Andrew Miller

If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then you have a
terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you are...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"no" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.dailybread.ca/research/pdf/Who2.pdf Look at section 12.

kevin_405

Does show some revealing facts it is harder for foreigners to get by especially the demographic on the fact that more and more people using the food bank seem to have higher educational qualification.

No

Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to tell them your
assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about permanent
employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent jobs to temporary
and short contract. Without benefits and other social security of course. This is the
official HRDC information.

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then you
have a
    > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you are...

Andrew Miller

I didn't dispute at all the data you pointed out to...

I just said that immigrating solely for money is doing it for a very wrong
reason. Immigrants are accepted by most countries with the assumption and
expectation that they will contribute to their new country's economy - not the
other way around, sorry. If you are looking for the new country to milk out some
government handouts and have a guaranteed job with secured standard of living
then don't immigrate at all...

Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about not getting
"what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after immigrating have
decided to immigrate in the first place under false assumption that everyone is
waiting for them here willing to give them money, free housing, guaranteed job and
financial security...

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

We all are waiting for immigrants and welcome them with open hearts and we are
willing to help (but not to hand out anything!) - and we are expecting that they will
contribute to our economy and help keep our economy and living standard steady
improving.

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"no" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to tell them
    > your assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about permanent
    > employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent jobs to
    > temporary and short contract. Without benefits and other social security of course.
    > This is the official HRDC information.
    >
    > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then you
    > have a
    > > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you are...

No

    > Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about
not
    > getting "what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after
    > immigrating have decided to immigrate in the first place under false
assumption How long is "immediately"? Is 2 years (yes, working) long enough? 3, 5,
10?

    > willing to help
Thanks for the help.

    >(but not to hand out anything!)
Most people are looking for a salary to be "handed out", AFAIK.

    >- and we are expecting that they will contribute to our economy and help keep our
    > economy and living
No job, no contribution. That simple.

    >Wrong, wrong, wrong...
I would suggest using just 1 "wrong".

    >We all are waiting for immigrants
Thank you, But I would not so positive about "all".

Jimbo

    >Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about not getting
    >"what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after immigrating have
    >decided to immigrate in the first place under false assumption that everyone is
    >waiting for them here willing to give them money, free housing, guaranteed job and
    >financial security...

Hear, hear. We have the same problem here in the UK. So called refugees fleeing for
their lives who then start demanding handouts and suing the British government
because they keep them penned up (in some level of luxury it has to be said).

Society has no responsibility to support those who do not contribute (or at least
choose not to). How can someone claim to "truly deserve" something from a country
that they have not contributed anything towards. If i ever get to Canada, i'll be
stepping aside to let the locals move by - i owe them, they don't owe me.

Jimbo.

Zo

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > I didn't dispute at all the data you pointed out to...
    >
    > I just said that immigrating solely for money is doing it for a very wrong
    > reason. Immigrants are accepted by most countries with the assumption and
    > expectation that they will contribute to their new country's economy - not the
    > other way around, sorry. If you are looking for the new country to milk out some
    > government handouts and have a guaranteed job with secured standard of living
    > then don't immigrate at all...
    >
    > Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about not
    > getting "what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after
    > immigrating have decided to immigrate in the first place under false assumption
    > that everyone is waiting for them here willing to give them money, free housing,
    > guaranteed job and financial security...
    >
    > Wrong, wrong, wrong...
    >
    > We all are waiting for immigrants and welcome them with open hearts and we are
    > willing to help (but not to hand out anything!)
.....What kind of help...? Canadian company doesn't even recognize any experience
from other country. 99% of you canadian doesn't even bother to reply to job
applicant. Thousand of Engineers,IT professional,Agriculturist are not coming here
for any kind of hand out. I bet if Canadian arrange a free competition for job, 90%
immigrant can knock out born canadian. New immigrants just wants a fair competition,
but you people are not willing to.

- and we are expecting that
    > they will contribute to our economy and help keep our economy and living standard
    > steady improving.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "no" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to tell them
    > > your assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about permanent
    > > employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent jobs to
    > > temporary and short contract. Without benefits and other social security of
    > > course. This is the official HRDC information.
    > >
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then you
    > have a
    > > > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you are...
    > >
    > >

Zo

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > I didn't dispute at all the data you pointed out to...
    >
    > I just said that immigrating solely for money is doing it for a very wrong reason.

.....Cut the crap.....!!! Ask your fore father why they choosed Canada to live in ?
Definitely for better life ( only better earnings provides that). What you think
people are migrating to canada for watching snow, enjoying hell like winter and
drinking maple syrup?

Immigrants are accepted by most countries with the assumption and
    > expectation that they will contribute to their new country's economy - not the
    > other way around, sorry. If you are looking for the new country to milk out some
    > government handouts and have a guaranteed job with secured standard of living then
    > don't immigrate at all...
    >
    > Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about not
    > getting "what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after
    > immigrating have decided to immigrate in the first place under false assumption
    > that everyone is waiting for them here willing to give them money, free housing,
    > guaranteed job and financial security...
    >
    > Wrong, wrong, wrong...
    >
    > We all are waiting for immigrants and welcome them with open hearts and we are
    > willing to help (but not to hand out anything!) - and we are expecting that they
    > will contribute to our economy and help keep our economy and living standard steady
    > improving.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "no" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to tell them
    > > your assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about permanent
    > > employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent jobs to
    > > temporary and short contract. Without benefits and other social security of
    > > course. This is the official HRDC information.
    > >
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then you
    > have a
    > > > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you are...
    > >
    > >

Andrew Miller

Jimbo,

Don't "step aside" for us locals, you won't owe us anything as long as you make it on
your own - and you need to feel being and really be equal and competitive if you want
to make it faster here... ))

If some "locals" won't keep up with you it will be their fault, not yours...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Jimbo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about not
    > >getting "what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after
    > >immigrating have decided to immigrate in the first place under false
assumption
    > >that everyone is waiting for them here willing to give them money, free housing,
    > >guaranteed job and financial security...
    >
    > Hear, hear. We have the same problem here in the UK. So called refugees fleeing for
    > their lives who then start demanding handouts and suing the British government
    > because they keep them penned up (in some level of luxury it has to be said).
    >
    > Society has no responsibility to support those who do not contribute (or at least
    > choose not to). How can someone claim to "truly deserve" something from a country
    > that they have not contributed anything towards. If i ever get to Canada, i'll be
    > stepping aside to let the locals move by - i owe them, they don't owe me.
    >
    > Jimbo.

Andrew Miller

So, how come about 80,000 to 100,000 Employment Authorizations are granted
each year????

Those people had to find the job before even applying for EA and they did it!!!

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Zo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > > I didn't dispute at all the data you pointed out to...
    > >
    > > I just said that immigrating solely for money is doing it for a very wrong
    > > reason. Immigrants are accepted by most countries with the assumption and
    > > expectation that they will contribute to their new country's economy - not
the
    > > other way around, sorry. If you are looking for the new country to milk out some
    > > government handouts and have a guaranteed job with secured standard of living
    > > then don't immigrate at all...
    > >
    > > Your reaction just proves my point - majority of those complaining about
not
    > > getting "what they truly deserve" from the new country immediately after
    > > immigrating have decided to immigrate in the first place under false
assumption
    > > that everyone is waiting for them here willing to give them money, free housing,
    > > guaranteed job and financial security...
    > >
    > > Wrong, wrong, wrong...
    > >
    > > We all are waiting for immigrants and welcome them with open hearts and we
are
    > > willing to help (but not to hand out anything!)
    > .....What kind of help...? Canadian company doesn't even recognize any experience
    > from other country. 99% of you canadian doesn't even bother to reply to job
    > applicant. Thousand of Engineers,IT professional,Agriculturist are not coming here
    > for any kind of hand out. I bet if Canadian arrange a free competition for job, 90%
    > immigrant can knock out born canadian. New immigrants just wants a fair
    > competition, but you people are not willing to.
    >
    > - and we are expecting that
    > > they will contribute to our economy and help keep our economy and living standard
    > > steady improving.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ../..
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > > sending email)
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "no" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to
tell
    > > > them your assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about
    > > > permanent employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent
    > > > jobs to temporary and short
contract.
    > > > Without benefits and other social security of course. This is the
official
    > > > HRDC information.
    > > >
    > > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then
you
    > > have a
    > > > > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you
are...
    > > >
    > > >
    >

Enigmacmpr

Here is another classic asinine post from Stuart.

What kind of statistics can you provide where people have actually got jobs in the
country that they were migrating to prior to actually migrating?

The reverse has always been true for the "New World" starting from the Mayflower
onwards. People moved for a number of reasons like fleeing religious
persecution, etc.

If you have watched Discovery you will see a trend in nature that all kinds of
animals including homo sapiens always move to greener pastures.

In this case those greener pastures turned out to be a mirage. On top of that, one
has to face the discrimination and being marginalized in society is something that is
certainly hard to take.

Here we have a classic case of the powers that be that thought up the idea of
immigration but failed in the execution. Now the situation is one where no one is
willing bell the cat. We are facing a similar situation in South Asia, where the
British only too gladly left a mess behind that no one wants to clean up and will end
up where the entire globe is the loser.

This situation is only going to get worse as more immigrants land in Canada. The
economy is on the road to recovery and it is a matter of time when industries once
again feel the shortage of qualified workers.

Recession is cyclical. There has been one every decade since the 70's.

The other fact is that if you do not have money you are marginalized in every
society. Ross Perot and Fortuyn were able to have their voices heard because each of
them had access to "Money".

Those immigrants who proclaim they are here for reasons other than a better life are
full of BS. I'd like to see them rough it out for a year on the streets of Vancouver
or Toronto with no money or spend time survivor style in the prairies and then make
the same claims.

regards,

enigmacmpr

Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    > You are still presenting the wrong picture. If you think that immigration is all
    > about money then you have an incomplete picture. Sure times are rough ... I
    > wouldn't consider moving anywhere without pre-arranged employment - not even down
    > the road!
    >
    > Coming to a new country praying you can find employment when you get here is really
    > a dangerous way of going about things.
    >
    > Stuart
    >

    >
    >
    >
    > no wrote:
    > >
    > > Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to tell them
    > > your assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about permanent
    > > employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent jobs to
    > > temporary and short contract. Without benefits and other social security of
    > > course. This is the official HRDC information.
    > >
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then you
    > have a
    > > > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you are...

cml

On 31 May 2002 14:56:51 -0700, Zo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]> ...
    >> I didn't dispute at all the data you pointed out to...
    >>
    >> I just said that immigrating solely for money is doing it for a very wrong reason.
    >
    >.....Cut the crap.....!!! Ask your fore father why they choosed Canada to live in ?
    >Definitely for better life ( only better earnings provides that). What you think
    >people are migrating to canada for watching snow, enjoying hell like winter and
    >drinking maple syrup?
    >
    >

Chill out pal. I'm just one of those immigrants you are talking here. For one thing,
I do enjoy the snow here by the way. In fact, I love it so much I won't move away
from places without snow. You see, your sad attitude is what stops you from enjoying
life. There's so much to get from life - but you are too busy worrying, fighting, and
complaining. Life is about endless series of disappointments, failures, occasional
discovery and joy. Don't just hang on to the negatives. There are bound to be lots of
things you have missed out.

Andrew Miller

Better life is not only about money - it is about security, stability, opportunities
and future. And immigration is about those factors too - money is needed regardless
where you are.

Check official statistics on CIC website about the numbers of people entering Canada
with Employment Authorization each year and you'll see that about 80,000 to 100,000
of them secured the job every year (including 2000 and 2001) before even coming to
Canada as they needed formal job offer (in most cases even HRDC validated) before
applying for EA. Statistics don't lie. As you can see the number of those entering on
EA is even larger than number of principal applicants approved annually in the
Independent category (about 60,000 to 70,000). So, you tell me why EA holders can
find the job and some landed immigrants can't?

Those EA holders all went through job search, lack of "Canadian experience" and most
importantly lack of any permit to work in Canada (and they've done it all from
abroad) when they were securing their jobs, so they had huge disadvantage - while
landed immigrants can start working immediately and employers don't need to do any of
the work to secure job validation and wait for their new employees to come to Canada.
Immigrants are already here - the problem is that some of them (for some strange
reason most vocal in this group) simply have no ability and/or willingness to adapt
and compete for jobs and their attitude simply sucks...., no wonder they can't find
jobs. It is rather sure that they won't find jobs anywhere also with their
attitude...

There is always number of people who can't find a job for some reasons, especially
when economy is in or just after the recession - but they are not all only new
immigrants, they are Canadians also who are losing their jobs and need to look for
alternatives like re-education, change of career, self-employment, starting a
business, etc.. And there are many more Canadians being unemployed than new
immigrants...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Enigmacmpr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Here is another classic asinine post from Stuart.
    >
    > What kind of statistics can you provide where people have actually got jobs in the
    > country that they were migrating to prior to actually migrating?
    >
    > The reverse has always been true for the "New World" starting from the Mayflower
    > onwards. People moved for a number of reasons like fleeing religious
    > persecution, etc.
    >
    > If you have watched Discovery you will see a trend in nature that all kinds of
    > animals including homo sapiens always move to greener pastures.
    >
    > In this case those greener pastures turned out to be a mirage. On top of that, one
    > has to face the discrimination and being marginalized in society is something that
    > is certainly hard to take.
    >
    > Here we have a classic case of the powers that be that thought up the idea of
    > immigration but failed in the execution. Now the situation is one where no one is
    > willing bell the cat. We are facing a similar situation in South Asia, where the
    > British only too gladly left a mess behind that no one wants to clean up and will
    > end up where the entire globe is the loser.
    >
    > This situation is only going to get worse as more immigrants land in Canada. The
    > economy is on the road to recovery and it is a matter of time when industries once
    > again feel the shortage of qualified workers.
    >
    > Recession is cyclical. There has been one every decade since the 70's.
    >
    > The other fact is that if you do not have money you are marginalized in every
    > society. Ross Perot and Fortuyn were able to have their voices heard because each
    > of them had access to "Money".
    >
    > Those immigrants who proclaim they are here for reasons other than a better life
    > are full of BS. I'd like to see them rough it out for a year on the streets of
    > Vancouver or Toronto with no money or spend time survivor style in the prairies and
    > then make the same claims.
    >
    > regards,
    >
    > enigmacmpr
    >
    > Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in
message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    > > You are still presenting the wrong picture. If you think that immigration is all
    > > about money then you have an incomplete picture. Sure times are rough ... I
    > > wouldn't consider moving anywhere without pre-arranged employment - not even down
    > > the road!
    > >
    > > Coming to a new country praying you can find employment when you get here is
    > > really a dangerous way of going about things.
    > >
    > > Stuart
    > >

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > no wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Go and see the crowds of laid-off people at HRDC stations. And try to
tell
    > > > them your assumptions. They will "EXPLAIN" you. Here is what HRDC says about
    > > > permanent employment: 1970 2002 70% 30% Workforce is forced out of permanent
    > > > jobs to temporary and short
contract.
    > > > Without benefits and other social security of course. This is the
official
    > > > HRDC information.
    > > >
    > > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > If your reason for immigration is money and government handouts then
you
    > > have a
    > > > > terrible misconception of immigration and you should stay where you
are...

Stuart Brook

Enigmacmpr wrote:

    > Here is another classic asinine post from Stuart.

Another classic ... let's attack the poster instead of realistically reading the
post.

    > What kind of statistics can you provide where people have actually got jobs in the
    > country that they were migrating to prior to actually migrating?

All I'm saying is that if you want to have a secure start in the new world to ensure
that you don't exhaust your own money, the way to do it is to prearrange employment.
If you move somewhere on the offchance of finding employment, you are taking a huge
risk, and if it all goes sour, is it your fault or the country's fault ?

    > The reverse has always been true for the "New World" starting from the Mayflower
    > onwards. People moved for a number of reasons like fleeing religious
    > persecution, etc.

That's proving the point that it's not all about money. But few people are moving to
the new world today for things like religious persecution, or even political
persecution. Most people are hoping to line their pockets on the imaginary streets
paved with gold.

    > If you have watched Discovery you will see a trend in nature that all kinds of
    > animals including homo sapiens always move to greener pastures.
    >
    > In this case those greener pastures turned out to be a mirage. On top of that, one
    > has to face the discrimination and being marginalized in society is something that
    > is certainly hard to take.
    >
    > Here we have a classic case of the powers that be that thought up the idea of
    > immigration but failed in the execution. Now the situation is one where no one is
    > willing bell the cat. We are facing a similar situation in South Asia, where the
    > British only too gladly left a mess behind that no one wants to clean up and will
    > end up where the entire globe is the loser.

That's right ... blame governments ... In a matter of a few months the nature of the
economy can change and the numbers of available jobs can go from hundreds to none.
Look at what happened in 2001 ...

Now is immigration policy supposed to change and reflect the changing economy at the
drop of a hat ?

    > This situation is only going to get worse as more immigrants land in Canada. The
    > economy is on the road to recovery and it is a matter of time when industries once
    > again feel the shortage of qualified workers.

The economy is so shaky at the moment that it is just too risky to go.

    > Recession is cyclical. There has been one every decade since the 70's.

Recession is not cyclical ... it is created by central banks and investors.

    > Those immigrants who proclaim they are here for reasons other than a better life
    > are full of BS. I'd like to see them rough it out for a year on the streets of
    > Vancouver or Toronto with no money or spend time survivor style in the prairies and
    > then make the same claims.

Which side of the coin are you arguing here ?